mrfs42
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Big Hair Day
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 28, 2011 0:10:21 GMT
It more to do with driving down the cost of railway equipment and opening it up to competition e.g. a bogie certified as compliant with the relevant TSI in, say, Germany I'm not going to beat around the bush: Eschede. |
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Sept 28, 2011 14:24:23 GMT
It more to do with driving down the cost of railway equipment and opening it up to competition e.g. a bogie certified as compliant with the relevant TSI in, say, Germany would then be usable in the UK with no additional certification or design approval other than where it connects to the underframe. I have an open mind on it but LU standards are more rigorous in certain areas e.g. fire compliance of materials, with very good reason. Regards, Dan Because the trains drive into really narrow tunnels so if a fire DOES break out the train can safely speed into another station. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 21:05:29 GMT
On a related note, the PDO buttons on the mainline trains (Class 465), have a button assembly mounted on the door leaf, with a rubber buffer behind it, and a perspex prism unit.
When the PDO button is pressed, the rubber buffer contacts against the actual switch mounted on the car body itself, which then opens the doors. (That's why there are no close buttons on the door leaf itself.)
The button appears to light up, as the LED unit on the car body shines through the perspex prism in the door button.
No wires or induction loops are used in this method, I am surprised it was not employed on the tube trains, as Metro Cammell built the Class 465's too.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 21:07:32 GMT
Very clever by the sounds of things
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 22, 2011 21:14:34 GMT
Does it have any practical use?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 21:17:11 GMT
Yeah it opens the doors?
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 22, 2011 21:18:09 GMT
Doesn't a regular button accomplish that just fine? Or Metro-Cammell was in need of money (explaining the Alstom takeover xd) |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2011 21:19:36 GMT
The point of it I thought was that it requires no electricity
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Post by abe on Nov 23, 2011 10:21:43 GMT
If you place the button and switch on the door you need to have an electrical circuit running to the button. Since the door moves, this either requires a cable, which runs the risk of catching in the mechanism or, more likely, chafing or just breaking due to the repeated movement of the door, OR, rubbing contacts, which have the risk of failure of the button through dirt on the contacts (likely given the environment).
The button on door / switch on body beneath is an elegant solution to the problem.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 23, 2011 14:04:24 GMT
Do you know if that arrangement is used on the new DLR stock as well?
The old stock has the buttons in the centre of the door, so obviously they can't use this solution, but the exterior buttons are on the side of the doors on the new stock (iirc designed that way to discourage passengers intending to board from standing in the way of those wishing to alight).
An alternative way of doing the same thing, possibly more expensively though, would be for the button on the door to just send a wireless signal to a receiver mounted on a fixed portion of the body.
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 23, 2011 15:28:01 GMT
The wireless signal would also be inefficient. If the signal would be obstructed, the door wouldn't open.
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Post by v52gc on Nov 23, 2011 15:53:38 GMT
Wouldn't you also need a power source to send a signal wirelessly?
Unless you used some sort of light beam tech I suppose...
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 23, 2011 16:19:50 GMT
Wouldn't you also need a power source to send a signal wirelessly? Unless you used some sort of light beam tech I suppose... Requires power source. Pretty good one, actually. |
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Post by trt on Nov 24, 2011 10:30:14 GMT
It would only need to send it an inch to an aerial on the body. A material which can generate power when flexed? I think I just read about something like that being mooted for wave farms. Solar collector as on a calculator? Inductive coupling like, as mentioned above, on the 95TS?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 24, 2011 10:37:17 GMT
As for a power source, surely a battery would do the job?
Yes, it would need changing or recharging periodically, but it's hardly the only thing on a train where that would be the case.
If it was located close to the body of the train then inductive charging (such as is used for electric toothbrushes) might be possible.
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Post by tecchy on Nov 24, 2011 18:54:17 GMT
Battery would still require charging therefore would either require a connection to an auxiliary converter OR us fitters would have to charge the battery remotely every time it came into the shed. That isn't happening for a door button trust me! If the battery was connected to the converter to charge it you might as well take a feed off the auxiliary straight to the button to avoid the complications of a battery.
The best solution in this case would be to have the button on the end of the door not the middle. The door would contain a button or bar which is sprung loaded. The button on the inside of a door would connect up to a female connection on the carbody which is connected to a push to make switch. The female switch needs to be water proof and sealed and the male section on the door doesn't need to be cleaned or waterproof as it is just a plastic bar with a spring on it!
If were talking about having the button light up then that is a different kettle of fish. That would require a drag chain on the top runners of the door.
Sorry to be so technical for those who don't understand, but its in my nature!
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 24, 2011 19:58:56 GMT
The battery would also lose it's capacity at some point (unless it's lead based)
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Post by abe on Nov 25, 2011 9:42:39 GMT
Lead-based batteries lose their capacity as well. That's why cars need to have their batteries changed every few years.
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 25, 2011 13:58:08 GMT
Lead-based batteries lose capacity less quickly. Guess why the Macintosh Portable battery lasted very, very long?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2011 22:57:29 GMT
I've been on the S Stock twice in the last few weeks where the Operator has had the doors on 100% passenger open - the doors only unlocked at stations rather than opened and the button must be pushed to get on. It's appreciated in the cold that's for sure!
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 7, 2011 23:12:26 GMT
Certainly a good feature on the Met.
The Northern would do well, especially at the Northern termini that can be exposed.
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Post by ducatisti on Dec 8, 2011 8:57:05 GMT
They did it in the snow last year. Given the level of regular passengers out at the extremities, I'd think it wouldn't be too much of a learning curve for the pax.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2011 9:43:33 GMT
So the buttons still work on the 95ts?
Yes it cant be too much of a learning curve, talking of the Central, people press the button when the doors dont open straight away anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2011 11:51:29 GMT
Everybody knows that when you board a suburban train with door buttons, you press the button to open the door at stations. It's a consistent policy which applies pretty universally.
So why doesn't LU have a consistent policy for stock with door opening buttons, publicise it and stick to it? Then the passenger would know what to expect.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 8, 2011 11:51:41 GMT
And people cope perfectly well with pressing buttons to open the doors on the DLR.
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Post by trt on Dec 8, 2011 14:22:27 GMT
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Dec 8, 2011 14:28:30 GMT
I think its a gut reaction in some ways. If you see a very conspicuous button next to a door you want to open with no other obvious way of opening it...
I mean they can train mice to do that for bits of cheese and things...
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Dec 8, 2011 15:34:36 GMT
Weren't posters like that also placed at District stations in four languages when the D78 was introduced?
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Post by 21146 on Dec 8, 2011 15:40:42 GMT
On S Stock the door buttons are detainment buttons when it is enabled by the T/Op.  He said "Jehovah!"
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 8, 2011 17:14:16 GMT
Weren't posters like that also placed at District stations in four languages when the D78 was introduced? Somewhere in my collection i have a card poster from inside D Stock with the same message. |
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He said "Jehovah!"
