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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Sept 18, 2011 18:30:14 GMT
First, a note;
I hope this is in the proper section, and if not, it should be moved.
We all probably know the fact that the 95TS and 96TS both have those door open buttons that serve no apparent use. (at least not in the underground sections I frequent when I'm in London)...
Why were the trains ever manufactured by MC/Alstom to have those door open buttons, while LU is known to always open all doors? Couldn't they just save money by not including those useless buttons? (They would be useful in overground sections on a very cold wintery day to preserve heat)
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Post by plasmid on Sept 18, 2011 19:02:19 GMT
92ts used them when they were first introduced so no the drivers have never always done this.
The new S8 on the Metropolitan have buttons and these are controlled by the passengers so again nope.
Unsure about 95/96ts.
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Post by jardine01 on Sept 18, 2011 19:07:46 GMT
They are probally more useful in the terminus where you can board the train then close the door if its too cold! But they would be pritty useless underground.
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Sept 18, 2011 19:22:14 GMT
92ts used them when they were first introduced so no the drivers have never always done this. The new S8 on the Metropolitan have buttons and these are controlled by the passengers so again nope. Unsure about 95/96ts. The buttons on the Met are enabled? (Haven't been on the S stock yet, only the A60/A62, not sure) |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Sept 18, 2011 19:39:24 GMT
Yes. On the S Stock, when a train arrives at an intermediate station such at Moor Park, they are all opened and closed by the T/O.
However, when at terminal stations e.g. Uxbridge, Baker St, Aldgate etc, when the train is in the platform, the doors close automatically after 45 seconds, and passengers can manually open them with the buttons.
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Post by andypurk on Sept 18, 2011 19:40:54 GMT
92ts used them when they were first introduced so no the drivers have never always done this. The new S8 on the Metropolitan have buttons and these are controlled by the passengers so again nope. Unsure about 95/96ts. The buttons on the Met are enabled? (Haven't been on the S stock yet, only the A60/A62, not sure) Yes the S-stock buttons work and are used by passengers as the doors auto-close when open for a long time (for example at termini). There are only door open buttons with no button to close the doors. Likewise, on the various sorts of stock from the 1990s they do see occasional use at termini when the weather is cold. I can certainly recall using them at Ealing Broadway on the '92 stock. When the '95 stock was first introduced on the Northern line, they were used, but this didn't last for too long. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2011 19:42:53 GMT
I think they shold turn them on at terminuses, they would be useful
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2011 19:50:20 GMT
Certainly would be nice to have, especially in the winter months. I don't quite understand why the S7s will (presumably) have the buttons when the equivalent on the D78s was removed/covered up on refurbishment, but that's not for the Northern line!  |
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Post by Alight on Sept 18, 2011 20:33:28 GMT
When the '95 stock was first introduced on the Northern line, they were used, but this didn't last for too long. This was also the case on the 1996 stock though only for stations above-ground. The interesting thing is that the 1995 stock door buttons are still pushable whereas this is not the case on the 1996 stock. |
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Post by causton on Sept 18, 2011 20:34:01 GMT
The S7s and S8s have them because of the air con. If the doors were open all the time the air con would be literally trying to regulate the temperature of the whole planet! And the 45 second rule applies at all stations - not just termini |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Sept 18, 2011 20:48:59 GMT
You're right  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2011 22:03:12 GMT
@alight, Im sure 1996ts buttons are pushable?! Last time I checked anyway
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Post by br7mt on Sept 19, 2011 17:13:44 GMT
The are fully functional on 95TS and 96TS, just never used as the TO always opens all doors. Current proposals are that the buttons will be removed from both fleets during their mid-life refresh.
Regards,
Dan
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Sept 19, 2011 17:51:50 GMT
Has there ever been a time on the underground where all stocks fitted with PDO actually had consistent reasons for use, and at the same time??
Do the buttons on the 95/6ts meet current regulations for open/close buttons?
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Post by ducatisti on Sept 19, 2011 21:25:22 GMT
they worked at High Barnet in the snow.
Seems a bit odd to take them out. Could they not just disable and remove the ones on the doors themselves (which are the dodgy ones IIRC)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2011 21:31:45 GMT
Or LU could just save money by enabling them at terminuses...
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Post by superteacher on Sept 21, 2011 19:20:35 GMT
Or LU could just save money by enabling them at terminuses... Would be easy to do - I believe that the passenger open function can still be enabled from the cab. On pre refurbed D stock, I think passenger open was isolated on a different way. Wonder if most of the door open buttons on the 95/96 stock are still working? I'm pretty sure that a lot of the 92 stock buttons probably aren't! Some of those were failing even when passenger open was still in operation over 10 years ago! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2011 20:42:25 GMT
Well I remember reading in an old old thread that passenger open is regularly turned on on the 92ts in the depot, but only the buttons in the pillars work properly, I presume its the same with 95 & 96ts'
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2011 13:02:06 GMT
On the outside door buttons on the 1995/6 stock I dont think many of them light up (perhaps alot covered by tunnel dust) but all of the ones in the saloon light up, so I wonder if the bulbs are changed and if the lights in the saloon ones still serve a purpose as a visual way that the doors are about to close (considering they extinguish a second or so before the doors shut and go out when the reverser switch is set to off)
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Post by t697 on Sept 23, 2011 16:47:31 GMT
On the outside door buttons on the 1995/6 stock I dont think many of them light up (perhaps alot covered by tunnel dust) but all of the ones in the saloon light up, so I wonder if the bulbs are changed and if the lights in the saloon ones still serve a purpose as a visual way that the doors are about to close (considering they extinguish a second or so before the doors shut and go out when the reverser switch is set to off) On 1995/96TS the passenger open button illumination is by LEDs not incandescent lamps. The power to the ones on the door leaves is coupled inductively when the doors are shut. The two coils no longer align when the doors open so the lights in the buttons on the doors then go off. They are probably not very visible after all these years now, if they actually work. |
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Post by Alight on Sept 23, 2011 19:17:10 GMT
@alight, Im sure 1996ts buttons are pushable?! Last time I checked anyway They always seem stiff to me, by contrast to the 1995 stock! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 17:17:54 GMT
Which ones? Outdoors or interior?
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Post by br7mt on Sept 25, 2011 17:53:44 GMT
The external door buttons are still functional and are included in the maintenance regime. I think they are being removed because it would be too expensive to make them RVAR compliant and because they are used so little that there is no point in keeping them.
Regards,
Dan
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2011 18:11:21 GMT
Them RVAR really do take the biscuit at times
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Post by br7mt on Sept 25, 2011 21:48:23 GMT
Might all change if the European TSIs are extended to cover metro systems as well  Regards, Dan |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2011 6:44:55 GMT
TSI's?
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Post by Alight on Sept 26, 2011 15:20:15 GMT
Which ones? Outdoors or interior? Interior. |
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Post by br7mt on Sept 26, 2011 18:14:23 GMT
Technical Specifications for Interoperability. Regards, Dan |
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Sept 26, 2011 18:26:41 GMT
Technical Specifications for Interoperability. Regards, Dan You mean that all underground railways should work the same? Please don't! (except when the Underground is the example) |
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Post by br7mt on Sept 27, 2011 21:19:04 GMT
It more to do with driving down the cost of railway equipment and opening it up to competition e.g. a bogie certified as compliant with the relevant TSI in, say, Germany would then be usable in the UK with no additional certification or design approval other than where it connects to the underframe.
I have an open mind on it but LU standards are more rigorous in certain areas e.g. fire compliance of materials, with very good reason.
Regards,
Dan
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