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Post by redsetter on May 25, 2011 15:25:44 GMT
its all got a bit silly and started to get out of hand and wont comment further its only a forum and discussion has headed in the wrong direction at times.
what i liked about the old stock i could tuck myself out of sight when travelling late and felt safer,this new design leaves someone exposed together with this open design encourages people who are drunk or intent to start wandering the train if someone starts throwing things around its more likely to affect other people.i dont know if there's cctv but its to late after the damage has been done.
there are the other points but open crowds and problems can be unpredictable when they happen.
perhaps its just me that thinks like that there arguments for both cases.
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Post by retep on May 25, 2011 21:10:20 GMT
i dont know if there's cctv but its to late after the damage has been done. There is CCTV on the new stock, i saw it on the 2009 ts and the Class 378's have CCTV, but i haven't seen the cameras inside the train but have seen the ones outside the train. So the S stock has to have cameras. This new design leaves someone exposed together with this open design encourages people who are drunk or intent to start wandering the train if someone starts throwing things around its more likely to affect other people. True but other lines haven't been too bad, from my experience, with longitudinal seating. If it leaves one exposed i guess they get used to it after being on the same train for some time. Although you could be easily secretive on an a stock. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 21:18:12 GMT
Retep the ones outside are for DOO on the 378s, IDK if they are recorded or not.
Dead sure S stock has CCTV. Only place I can think it is, would be on the internal DMIs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 21:26:01 GMT
Dead sure S stock has CCTV. Only place I can think it is, would be on the internal DMIs. Yes, I saw them - they are beside the internal DMIs, but it can be quite hard to notice. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 25, 2011 21:30:05 GMT
it may not be the longest journey times but it has greater distances between stations, amersham/chesham being the furthest away from london then any.also this line has two operators using the same line in part. it would be surprising if these would last forty years as bronzonion commented given the what looks to be complex electronics also. The train has an IP netwrok and additional capacity for future proofing purposes. These trains will last forty years but will undoubtedly need a mid-life facelift like most others. Quite frankly, and knowing LU, we will never see another upgrade of this scale in our lifetimes. I suspect I will be dead and buried and there will still be an 'S' stock in service (I'm 40 now incidentally!).  |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 25, 2011 21:45:29 GMT
I don't want to appear overly agressive or just bloody minded on this but honestly, and in the nicest possible sense, that is nonsense. there are wider arguments too, namely the seating arrangments and the fact that little of the successful characteristics have been incorporated into this new train, The seating arrangement is a compromise based on increased passenger numbers and forcasted continued increase in the foresseable future. We are not the railway we were in the 1950's when 'A' stock were designed. There are enough new features, which are relevant for today's users, to counter your arguement on characteristics. We were not trying to design a new 'A' Stock, primarily because they are no longer suited to the needs of our customer base. the line runs a long way from central london and nearly verging on the south midlands area and thus deserves the attention that was afforded the a stock in early stages. this does not appear to be the case with what looks to be standardisation on various lines. 'A' Stock didn't get as much attention as you think, in fact they were widely criticised on there introduction. Whilst we have gone for a standardised design (not taking into account the different seat layouts and additional car) this is not a bad thing. Standardisation is good for you as a tax payer, both in up front build costs but more importnatly in long term running and maintenance costs. there are other gripes to namely the open design which appears to be given little thought which one incident of emergency instead of being (possibly) contained in one carriage has the potential to affect the whole train. Again not wishing to be agressive, but I must have missed you at the multitude of design reviews and meetings with the various emergency services. Admittedly I was busy on the day but I didn't notice you in the tunnel on 7/7 or during the prolonged recovery period where we learnt many valuable lessons. To suggest we have just implemented a through gangway design without any consideration for emergencies and other unsociable incidents is bordering on naive frankly. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 25, 2011 21:48:28 GMT
Would anyone know who you need to contact about getting a A-Stock Carriage, I have helped save a number of items in the past and would like to see if this is possible. If anyone does could they PM me thanks PM me! |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 25, 2011 21:51:09 GMT
Would anyone know who you need to contact about getting a A-Stock Carriage, I have helped save a number of items in the past and would like to see if this is possible. If anyone does could they PM me thanks PM me! Ohhhh, if blatant questions are allowed, who do I need to contact about getting a short luggage rack? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 21:52:39 GMT
Who can I contact for a seat? Or an end carriage door?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 25, 2011 21:53:07 GMT
its all got a bit silly and started to get out of hand and wont comment further its only a forum and discussion has headed in the wrong direction at times. what i liked about the old stock i could tuck myself out of sight when travelling late and felt safer,this new design leaves someone exposed together with this open design encourages people who are drunk or intent to start wandering the train if someone starts throwing things around its more likely to affect other people.i dont know if there's cctv but its to late after the damage has been done. there are the other points but open crowds and problems can be unpredictable when they happen. perhaps its just me that thinks like that there arguments for both cases. I personally welcome the debate and am happy for you and others to have opposing opinions to me. I have spent the last 6 years on this project and am naturally a bit 'protective'. I will counter any point which I think is incorrect though, particularly where people (not just you) make incorrect assumptions about how we reached design decisions. Your points on unsociable behaviour in particular were considered in detail during the various design stages but ultimately there were many other factors which proved to mean that the decision to go for open gangways was correct. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 25, 2011 21:55:40 GMT
Ohhhh, if blatant questions are allowed, who do I need to contact about getting a short luggage rack? Oh no! I'm not opening that flood gate!! ;D |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 25, 2011 21:56:19 GMT
Who can I contact for a seat? Or an end carriage door? See… It's a flood gate!!  |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 25, 2011 21:58:38 GMT
Ohhhh, if blatant questions are allowed, who do I need to contact about getting a short luggage rack? Oh no! I'm not opening that flood gate!! ;D Awwwww, ah well. At least it's recognised to be a flood-gate! ;D |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2011 22:02:20 GMT
Would anyone know who you need to contact about getting a A-Stock Carriage, I have helped save a number of items in the past and would like to see if this is possible. If anyone does could they PM me thanks PM me! Thanks sent ops did I open a gate.... |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 25, 2011 22:05:29 GMT
Oh no! I'm not opening that flood gate!! ;D Awwwww, ah well. At least it's recognised to be a flood-gate! ;D You are not the first! It's just there is no way to manage this process. Who will remove items? How will they be sold? What if the items become defective? It is all too messy. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 25, 2011 22:12:46 GMT
You are not the first! It's just there is no way to manage this process. Who will remove items? How will they be sold? What if the items become defective? It is all too messy. Who will remove items? I will, so long as no one shouts at me! How will they be sold? Tell me who to write the cheque out to! What if it becomes defective? It's a luggage rack; it won't become defective! It's all too messy? For the project team (whom I admire hugely) oh absolutely, for me it's dead easy (just don't arrest me for carrying a screwdriver on the UndergrounD!) |
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on May 25, 2011 22:35:56 GMT
You are not the first! It's just there is no way to manage this process. Who will remove items? How will they be sold? What if the items become defective? It is all too messy. Who will remove items? I will, so long as no one shouts at me! How will they be sold? Tell me who to write the cheque out to! What if it becomes defective? It's a luggage rack; it won't become defective! It's all too messy? For the project team (whom I admire hugely) oh absolutely, for me it's dead easy (just don't arrest me for carrying a screwdriver on the UndergrounD!) +1!! I think it needs to be recognised that there is a demand for items from the A-stock (mine's a long luggage rack for my hallway,please) I have bought (at great expense) a 4VEP luggage rack from a legitimate atchitectural salvage firm so there are clearly no legal or technical problems in such a sale....the only question asked was would I like to enter my PIN number into the card machine. This could pay for itself or even make money...if the demand is huge,the effort involved would be worth doing,if the demand is small,sales could be made on an "on prior application" basis to ensure efficient use of workers' time. It would be sad if the Underground missed a trick here.... |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on May 26, 2011 0:13:19 GMT
Ohhhh, if blatant questions are allowed, who do I need to contact about getting a short luggage rack? Listen boyo - I sent you a text as soon as I saw them delivered to the point of sale...... All legitimate and kosher. |
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Post by citysig on May 26, 2011 14:12:32 GMT
I suspect I will be dead and buried and there will still be an 'S' stock in service (I'm 40 now incidentally!). Really? You don't show it. You don't look a day over 39  ;D (yeh I know, I'll get me coat..) |
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Post by rincew1nd on May 26, 2011 19:06:05 GMT
Ohhhh, if blatant questions are allowed, who do I need to contact about getting a short luggage rack? Listen boyo - I sent you a text as soon as I saw them delivered to the point of sale...... All legitimate and kosher. You can't knock a boy for being keen! |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 27, 2011 21:11:27 GMT
Who will remove items? I will, so long as no one shouts at me! How will they be sold? Tell me who to write the cheque out to! What if it becomes defective? It's a luggage rack; it won't become defective! It's all too messy? For the project team (whom I admire hugely) oh absolutely, for me it's dead easy (just don't arrest me for carrying a screwdriver on the UndergrounD!) +1!! I think it needs to be recognised that there is a demand for items from the A-stock (mine's a long luggage rack for my hallway,please) I have bought (at great expense) a 4VEP luggage rack from a legitimate atchitectural salvage firm so there are clearly no legal or technical problems in such a sale....the only question asked was would I like to enter my PIN number into the card machine. This could pay for itself or even make money...if the demand is huge,the effort involved would be worth doing,if the demand is small,sales could be made on an "on prior application" basis to ensure efficient use of workers' time. It would be sad if the Underground missed a trick here.... We are not missing a trick! We are getting reasonable value for money from scrapping and don't have to assign staff to remove and sell the items and we don't have all the hassle that would come along with that. We are here to run a railway and have no intentions of starting a parts business on the side. You bought item's from a salvage firm not from a railway company. |
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 27, 2011 21:15:02 GMT
for me it's dead easy (just don't arrest me for carrying a screwdriver on the UndergrounD!) I know you are kidding, but I also know that as rolling stock approach their withdrawal dates some enthusiasts will 'remove' items without authority. LU would take a dim view of this and prosecution would follow for anyone found engaging in that kind of activity. |
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on May 28, 2011 8:23:56 GMT
I understand and take all your points...and I certainly would not expect any of your team to divert time or resources to supplying parts to enthusiasts....they have more important things to do (such as running a railway)
However the LTM has sold artefacts in the past,and could raise money this way,or enthusiasts could be directed to an approved dealer (such as the one I used to obtain my ex-SR item).
The trick being missed is not purely financial...the recent outings of the '38 Stock may not,strictly-speaking have been remunerative nor conducive to the running of a railway,but very few would say they were a bad idea....
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 28, 2011 13:34:13 GMT
I understand and take all your points...and I certainly would not expect any of your team to divert time or resources to supplying parts to enthusiasts....they have more important things to do (such as running a railway) However the LTM has sold artefacts in the past,and could raise money this way,or enthusiasts could be directed to an approved dealer (such as the one I used to obtain my ex-SR item). The trick being missed is not purely financial...the recent outings of the '38 Stock may not,strictly-speaking have been remunerative nor conducive to the running of a railway,but very few would say they were a bad idea.... Appreciate what your saying and you make a reasonable point. I just don't think it's going to happen. Maybe one of the authorised scrapping agents will see an 'opening' in the market and start flogging items off? |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 15:17:20 GMT
I understand and take all your points...and I certainly would not expect any of your team to divert time or resources to supplying parts to enthusiasts....they have more important things to do (such as running a railway) However the LTM has sold artefacts in the past,and could raise money this way,or enthusiasts could be directed to an approved dealer (such as the one I used to obtain my ex-SR item). The trick being missed is not purely financial...the recent outings of the '38 Stock may not,strictly-speaking have been remunerative nor conducive to the running of a railway,but very few would say they were a bad idea.... Appreciate what your saying and you make a reasonable point. I just don't think it's going to happen. Maybe one of the authorised scrapping agents will see an 'opening' in the market and start flogging items off? Assuming there's no clause in the contract of sale, to the scrap merchant, that prevents onward sale of parts. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 2, 2011 7:02:14 GMT
I see the boarding ramp is still in place at Northwood, a worrying sign.....
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jun 2, 2011 21:55:16 GMT
for me it's dead easy (just don't arrest me for carrying a screwdriver on the UndergrounD!) I know you are kidding, but I also know that as rolling stock approach their withdrawal dates some enthusiasts will 'remove' items without authority. LU would take a dim view of this and prosecution would follow for anyone found engaging in that kind of activity. I am indeed kidding, anybody who removed anything from The Railway without permission should be sentenced to seven trips around the Circle Line, or failing that banished to Rail Replacement Busses for the rest of their life. Seriously though history is no excuse for vandalism, indeed vandalism often causes gaps in history though it might not seem that way at the time (this is why Stone Henge has concrete foundations). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 7:37:48 GMT
My partner and I travelled from Northwood to Wembley Park yesterday (for the Styx, Foreigner, Journey concert) not an S stock train to be seen ;D Some of the A stock does still look in pretty good condition. We travelled back on a fast service to Moor Park and then got a stopper back to Northwood . Great band Journey, followed by a great train journey  I spotted the loading ramp in Northwood station car park, an ominous sign of things to come! I saw A60 stock stabled in the Wembley Park sidings; has a decision being made yet on what happens to these sidings once the Met is totally operated by S stock? Xerces Fobe |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2011 7:42:37 GMT
I think they should put the S8's out for the football matches as they would handle the crowds better
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Post by younglulnerd on Jun 5, 2011 9:33:35 GMT
I think they should put the S8's out for the football matches as they would handle the crowds better They may well have done yesterday. Didn't go, so I don't know. A's are always packed on the way up to Wembley. Their only down point... |
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;D
