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Post by spsmiler on Aug 18, 2015 22:25:46 GMT
Maybe my recollection is not quite right, as I was a teenage schoolboy at the time, but it seems that the situation faced today where an industrial dispute is resulting in any train that is being fit being pressed into service also occurred in the 1970's.
Simon
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 9:41:20 GMT
Maybe my recollection is not quite right, as I was a teenage schoolboy at the time, but it seems that the situation faced today where an industrial dispute is resulting in any train that is being fit being pressed into service also occurred in the 1970's. Simon Yes, it was the Craftmen's strike at Acton in the late-1960s which had repercussions for the 1938 Tube Stock for a long time. Not quite "any train" but there were many 6-car trains on the Bakerloo and Northern for a time and the Picc lost its 1938s for a while. |
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Post by decaded on Aug 19, 2015 23:03:45 GMT
I can tell you one thing for sure.....on the signalling/control side I can say that by cancelling the average ten trains (mostly a.m. / p.m. peak extras),whats left now run to time much better...the headways are sometimes greater, but in general it all seems to run much easier (i'm talking District here)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 5:07:22 GMT
Aslong you keep the machines in step
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Post by superteacher on Aug 20, 2015 5:12:57 GMT
I can tell you one thing for sure.....on the signalling/control side I can say that by cancelling the average ten trains (mostly a.m. / p.m. peak extras),whats left now run to time much better...the headways are sometimes greater, but in general it all seems to run much easier (i'm talking District here) Maybe, but the gaps are very obvious at times! |
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Post by wimblephil on Aug 20, 2015 6:17:46 GMT
The gaps certainly don't help the Wimbledon Branch in the peak. Trains start to get near capacity at East Putney. Generally it's quite a busy branch anyway, but when there's 10+ minutes between trains...! I'm just glad I board at Wims and get my seat!
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Post by superteacher on Aug 20, 2015 6:58:42 GMT
The gaps certainly don't help the Wimbledon Branch in the peak. Trains start to get near capacity at East Putney. Generally it's quite a busy branch anyway, but when there's 10+ minutes between trains...! I'm just glad I board at Wims and get my seat! True, but at least you have the consolation of the Edgware Road service which generally isn't affected by the cancellations. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 13:42:51 GMT
Does any one have détails of which trains are usually S stock allocated ? I know thé WTT states some but more and more Get introduced each week. And do dépôts have spare trains incase or break downs etc and are any specfic trains allocated to dépôts or any ?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 20, 2015 13:52:32 GMT
Does any one have détails of which trains are usually S stock allocated ? I know thé WTT states some but more and more Get introduced each week. And do dépôts have spare trains incase or break downs etc and are any specfic trains allocated to dépôts or any ? This gives the latest information (valid from Saturday 22 Aug) on S7 Stock on the District Line, although as stated the current RMT overtime-ban by depot staff is affecting the 'booked' workings: Mondays to Fridays:7, 13, 32, 34, 47, 50, 55, 56, 60, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 103, 123(AM), 124(PM) Saturdays: (non engineering works)11, 12, 13, 15, 20, 21, 31, 32, 35, 36, 37, 40, 41, 42, 44, 46, 47, 54, 67, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77 Sundays: (non engineering works)31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 51, 52, 53, 54, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 101 |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 15:16:57 GMT
Cheers, are these always S stock or does it depend on depot allocations ? do trains park any where in the depots or its all planed out which train goes where?
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class411
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Post by class411 on Aug 20, 2015 17:18:19 GMT
Last London trip, three weeks ago, I had one in six S Stock journeys on the District.
It will be interesting (although largely meaningless) to see what I get this weekend.
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Post by Colin on Aug 20, 2015 18:26:31 GMT
Cheers, are these always S stock or does it depend on depot allocations ? do trains park any where in the depots or its all planed out which train goes where? Trains are stabled randomly in the depot at night and are allocated during the night for the morning run out. Some trains planned for maintainence may be routed to a shed road but this isn't planned days in advance.....its more like hours in advance. Rolling stock belongs to a line or group of lines - no passenger rolling stock belongs to a particular depot (well, with the exception of the Waterloo & City line). The workings listed above are supposed to be S stock worked, but as stated on the last page or two of this very thread there is absolutely no garauntees at the moment due to the number of reforms occuring because of maintenence issues linked to the current industrial dispute. |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 20, 2015 19:31:29 GMT
What's quite interesting (or worrying) is that overtime is relied upon to ensure that sufficient trains are maintained to a level that enables a full service to be run.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 24, 2015 19:57:51 GMT
Another S stock update for today, Monday 24th August:
1,7,11,13,23,24,25,26,32,34,37,43,47,53,55,56,60,62,63,64,65,66,67,123 (pm)
24 trains. 32 including 70 - 77 on the Edgware Road - Wimbledon service.
However, I think that train 1 bit the dust at some point during the day. As for the afternoon starters, apart from 123 I only saw 103 and 122, which were both D stock. 124 and 125 did not run. Didn't see any of the others, but didn't spend a lot of time looking.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 27, 2015 21:10:29 GMT
Last S stock update from me (for a while at least!)
4,5,6,7,13,22,23,24,31,32,34,41,46,47,50,51,55,56,60,62,64,65,66,67
Again, 24 trains, 32 including the Edgware Road - Wimbledon lot.
As for pm starters, I saw 103, 121,122,123 and 126, all of which were D stock. 124 and 125 didn't run, and I didn't get to see 101,102,104,105,106,107 and 110.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 9, 2015 8:46:00 GMT
S7 21471/72 is in a special wrapped livery "Mexico - Live It To Believe It", Mexico tourism promotion.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 19:21:46 GMT
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Post by MoreToJack on Sept 10, 2015 14:48:01 GMT
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Post by superteacher on Sept 16, 2015 19:02:23 GMT
Any updates on S stock workings?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 16, 2015 20:20:30 GMT
No recent official allocation list has been produced during the ongoing industrial action.
The RMT overtime ban decimated the service performance of D Stock leading to many more S Stock appearing on any working.
Just looking at Monday 14 September gives this:
S7: 4 11 20 21 30 31 32 40 45 51 55 56 60 61 63 66 67 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 103 122 123 126.
D: 1 2 3 5 6 7 10 14 15 16 17 23 24 25 27 33 34 35 36 37 41 43 44 47 50 52 53 54 64 65 101 104 106 107 121 124 125.
A few trains on Wimbledon branch were not showing Stock allocation.
A scheduled hold was put on D Stock departing, although this has now been lifted with 4 6-car trains going in 2 weeks.
S7 deliveries continue, although the one this week was cancelled.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2015 20:29:28 GMT
Anyone notice at Paddington H&C the trains are doing the SDO announcement, or am I losing the plot?
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 17, 2015 7:43:00 GMT
The RMT overtime ban decimated the service performance of D Stock leading to many more S Stock appearing on any working. Now, this is rather puzzling. LT presumably want to get the S-Stock introduced. They are spectacularly behind on their original time scale for doing so. And yet with less working hours available they somehow increase the proportion of S stock working. If they had the capability to get more S stock operating all along, why are they only doing so now, when forced by industrial action? |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Sept 17, 2015 13:44:49 GMT
Any updates on S stock workings? Due to the Rugby World Cup additional trains are being provided and services to Richmond enhanced to utilise S7 Stock where possible: On Friday 18 September: 4, 7, 11, 15, 20, 21, 23, 31, 32, 34, 40, 46, 62, 63, 67, 102/114, 113, 122, 123(AM). On Saturday 19 September: 3, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 33, 35, 40, 51, 125. On Sunday 20 September: 12, 13, 14, 33, 35, 37, 40, 51, 52. M-F 21/9-25/9: 7, 13 21, 27, 34, 40, 46, 50, 55, 56, 61, 62, 63, 64, 67, 103, 123(AM only), 124(PM only). |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 17, 2015 14:21:06 GMT
Due to the Rugby World Cup additional trains are being provided and services to Richmond enhanced to utilise S7 Stock where possible: M-F 21/9-25/9: 7, 13 21, 27, 34, 40, 46, 50, 55, 56, 61, 62, 63, 64, 67, 103, 123(AM only), 124(PM only). Why the additional weekday workings next week? There is only one World Cup match at Twickenham in the whole tournament - and that's tomorrow! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 17, 2015 14:29:34 GMT
The RMT overtime ban decimated the service performance of D Stock leading to many more S Stock appearing on any working. Now, this is rather puzzling. If they had the capability to get more S stock operating all along, why are they only doing so now, when forced by industrial action? It's called sweating the assets. When phasing out old stock and introducing new, it is normal practice to get as much work out of the old stock as you can (up to, but not beyond, the mileage at which the next major overhaul would be due). Basically, a D stock with some distance to go is fully depreciated and costs nothing to use, wheras an S stock would be piling on the miles towards its next (first) overhaul. By maximising the use of D stock, you are postponing the date at which the S's will come due for overhaul. But, as I understand it, D stock takes more time to prepare for a day's service, so with manpower in short supply the only way to get enough trains in service each day was to leave the D's in the sidings. If you have two packets of custard, one with a use-by date of tomorrow, and one with a use-by date of next month, which do you use first? |
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Post by whistlekiller2000 on Sept 17, 2015 16:08:52 GMT
Now, this is rather puzzling. If they had the capability to get more S stock operating all along, why are they only doing so now, when forced by industrial action? It's called sweating the assets. When phasing out old stock and introducing new, it is normal practice to get as much work out of the old stock as you can (up to, but not beyond, the mileage at which the next major overhaul would be due). Basically, a D stock with some distance to go is fully depreciated and costs nothing to use, wheras an S stock would be piling on the miles towards its next (first) overhaul. By maximising the use of D stock, you are postponing the date at which the S's will come due for overhaul. But, as I understand it, D stock takes more time to prepare for a day's service, so with manpower in short supply the only way to get enough trains in service each day was to leave the D's in the sidings. If you have two packets of custard, one with a use-by date of tomorrow, and one with a use-by date of next month, which do you use first? Can we save custard references for the "Custard" thread please everybody or else somebody's going to end up in the apple pie.  Something I've thought about before re-occurred to me after having read the "sweating the assets" explanation (thank you NF). The irony is, the longer it takes to introduce the S Stock, the longer they'll be in service, so one way or another we'll all get our money's worth out of them although I'm likely to be well into my 80s (if I get that far of course) before the "S Stock Withdrawal" thread gets started by some of our great grandchildren!  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2015 21:21:16 GMT
The RMT overtime ban decimated the service performance of D Stock leading to many more S Stock appearing on any working. Now, this is rather puzzling. LT presumably want to get the S-Stock introduced. They are spectacularly behind on their original time scale for doing so. And yet with less working hours available they somehow increase the proportion of S stock working. If they had the capability to get more S stock operating all along, why are they only doing so now, when forced by industrial action? Not that puzzling really. Faced with upcoming exams on a number of D stock and a lack of staff to undertake the exams it was possible to bring in a few extra S stock that wouldn't need an exam for xx,000 km and so lessened the overall maintenance burden. It wouldn't be sustainable for a proper rollout since those S stock would need exams at some point and the limitation on resources would then bite. With the end of the industrial action and a review of the actual number of km that the S stock is clocking up it has been possible to keep the extra trains on the line and remove some more redundant Ds. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Sept 18, 2015 6:58:08 GMT
Now, this is rather puzzling. If they had the capability to get more S stock operating all along, why are they only doing so now, when forced by industrial action? It's called sweating the assets. When phasing out old stock and introducing new, it is normal practice to get as much work out of the old stock as you can (up to, but not beyond, the mileage at which the next major overhaul would be due). Basically, a D stock with some distance to go is fully depreciated and costs nothing to use, wheras an S stock would be piling on the miles towards its next (first) overhaul. By maximising the use of D stock, you are postponing the date at which the S's will come due for overhaul. But, as I understand it, D stock takes more time to prepare for a day's service, so with manpower in short supply the only way to get enough trains in service each day was to leave the D's in the sidings. If you have two packets of custard, one with a use-by date of tomorrow, and one with a use-by date of next month, which do you use first? The above is exactly what I would have assumed, BUT it does not make much sense when considered against the original announced timescales for the introduction of S Stock. The complete introduction will be YEARS behind the originally announced date. And yet, when they made those original announcements they must have been fully aware (one supposes) of the life (before major work) expectancy of the D-Stock. Or is this yet another LU management cock-up, along the lines of announcing dates whilst not, apparently, realising that drivers would need to be trained and infrastructure changes made (or perhaps just grossly underestimating the time required for these tasks)? |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 18, 2015 11:11:02 GMT
It's called sweating the assets. When phasing out old stock and introducing new, it is normal practice to get as much work out of the old stock as you can (up to, but not beyond, the mileage at which the next major overhaul would be due). Basically, a D stock with some distance to go is fully depreciated and costs nothing to use, wheras an S stock would be piling on the miles towards its next (first) overhaul. By maximising the use of D stock, you are postponing the date at which the S's will come due for overhaul. But, as I understand it, D stock takes more time to prepare for a day's service, so with manpower in short supply the only way to get enough trains in service each day was to leave the D's in the sidings. If you have two packets of custard, one with a use-by date of tomorrow, and one with a use-by date of next month, which do you use first? The above is exactly what I would have assumed, BUT it does not make much sense when considered against the original announced timescales for the introduction of S Stock. The complete introduction will be YEARS behind the originally announced date. And yet, when they made those original announcements they must have been fully aware (one supposes) of the life (before major work) expectancy of the D-Stock. Or is this yet another LU management cock-up, along the lines of announcing dates whilst not, apparently, realising that drivers would need to be trained and infrastructure changes made (or perhaps just grossly underestimating the time required for these tasks)? Is the project really years behind as you state? I always thought that the D stock was due to be gone by 2015, so we would only be talking about it being one year late. |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 20, 2015 6:45:59 GMT
Any updates on S stock workings? Due to the Rugby World Cup additional trains are being provided and services to Richmond enhanced to utilise S7 Stock where possible: On Friday 18 September: 4, 7, 11, 15, 20, 21, 23, 31, 32, 34, 40, 46, 62, 63, 67, 102/114, 113, 122, 123(AM). On Saturday 19 September: 3, 6, 7, 12, 13, 14, 33, 35, 40, 51, 125. On Sunday 20 September: 12, 13, 14, 33, 35, 37, 40, 51, 52. M-F 21/9-25/9: 7, 13 21, 27, 34, 40, 46, 50, 55, 56, 61, 62, 63, 64, 67, 103, 123(AM only), 124(PM only). I saw 6, 14 and 110 on Friday within the space of 10 mins, none of which were down as S stock workings. |
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