Internal doors

Not being there, I need a clarification or two.

Are these doors sliding doors or "slam doors"?
Are they banging and slamming due to the movement of the train?
Can a patron just get up and put it in a closed position?
Would the driver go through the train inside in bad weather when changing ends?

I agree, it is very dangerous for the following reasons:

1. I have seen a mother with three young children get into a carriage at Woodford, with the interconnecting door open as the train pulled away. If the mother was not paying attention, the child could potentially walk or fall out of the carriage, or get hit by a heavy metal door.

2. It is possible for the door to look shut, if the lock hasn't engaged properly. Somebody standing adjacted to the door could get hit as the heavy door swings open when the train accelerates/decelerates.

3. A partially sighted passenger could walk into the door or walk out of the carriage.

4. The warning notices, emergency use only etc are not visible when the door is open because the notices are attached to the door itself.

In my opinion, a train with all the interconnecting doors open or not shut should not be in service. The associated risks are too great. When there is a serious accident, e.g. child knocked unconscious by the door hitting them, something will change.

Well having said that, the doors are still necessary to exist on carriages, for obvious reasons. The whole subject made me think about risk assessments. I'm sure various options to minimize and balance risk have been assessed. The only improvement I can see is making them key operated, with an emergency door release mechanism available. But in a packed tube train needing to get evacuated in a tunnel during an emergency, they have to be simple and idiot proof to get open.

Why could they not be made to have a release mechanism similar to the cab 'J' door, with a ring pull plastic cover to access the lever and open the door?

I also once saw, on the Northern line, a group of adult Chinese tourists get confused by the 'upon arrival the last set of doors will not open. would customers in the last carriage please move towards the front doors to leave the train' message. They opened the interconnecting door from the last carriage while the train was still moving. A bit stupid, but they probably misinterpreted the announcement, since they didn't appear to speak English. Probably their own fault, but still...

Same happens on jubillee line.

Also the J doors (carriage to cab) open to 'inside' the cab, rather than the other way round on other stocks!

You make some excellent points here. It's true, although it's annoying to complain, it is a real issue. It is potentially extremely dangerous. Think I may have a moan then!

I wouldn't have said these doors are dangerous. Hundreds of thousands of people interact with them every day, and I'm not aware of these doors being a major source of problems. Like most equipment, they should be treated with a degree of care and common sense.

Yes, a Train Operator should close them when passing through the train - though I'm struggling to think of where this requirement may actually be written down. The closest I can think is in some of the train preparation instructions for certain stocks. In any case failure of a Train Operator to do this is more likely to fit into the "suitable advice for the future" category rather than a disciplinary matter. And of course 92 stock does not have in-car CCTV, so the T/Op could always deny the incident or claim that the door must have been opened by a passenger.

It is known for these doors to occasionally come open of their own accord - particularly on the 95 and 96 stocks. If this were to cause an injury, it would be treated as a door irregularity, which would mean the train would be immediately withdrawn from service, witnesses sought, evidence preserved and an investigation by fleet staff. Whilst it's well know these doors do occasionally come open on these trains, again I can't readily think of an occasion when an injury has been reported.

So like most pieces of hardware, they need to be treated with care and used sensibly. In a perfect world, the Train Operator should take the care to close the doors when walking through the train. But I don't see any cause for losing sleep if one boards a train and finds an open door, and I certainly don't have a great deal of sympathy for someone somehow managing to injure themselves because of it. If you board a train and find one of the doors open, simply close it - it's not difficult and the matter is then resolved.

This type of inter-connecting door has been standard on all stocks going back decades with no major issues.
Perhaps some of you think all trains should be withdrawn from service as they violate health and safety and discipline those District drivers who wedge shoe paddles behind the J door.

I see what you are saying (the pro-door group!) and you are right that we cannot live in a plastic bubble all our lives.

But a hazard does exist. It has obviously been recognized by LU and subjected to a risk assessment and a few years ago stickers appeared on all the doors saying 'no entry, risk of death...'. There is also a plate outside the door, so there isn't just a gaping hole to jump over. I appreciate that the chances of anything happening are very small.

But there is a difference between the odd door left open, and EVERY single interconnecting door left open in the entire train as can be the case at Woodford.

It is obvious that 99% of people would not really care about the open door one way or the other, and would sit down or slam it shut. By the time you reach Roding Valley, most of the doors are shut anyway. If the human race could not cope with an open door then we would not have evolved into what we are today! But it is the principle. And it just looks sloppy to leave all the doors open.

I would have thought it would take longer for a driver to go through the train opening x amount of doors than it would to walk down a platform.

Yes, they should be closed, I was always under the impression that they were alarmed.

Well at least the danger signs have had an impression on someone. I am surprised though there isn't at least an indication in the cab relating to these doors. Maybe one that prevents a cab being opened up (i.e. following a change of ends) but won't prevent operation once cab is up and running (i.e. if it is opened by a passenger).

As for walking down platform vs through the train, this OP relates to reversing at Woodford, using the siding. I've noticed doors coming open on the Bakerloo, where the major northern reversing points are sidings.

... and which can probably be dealt with by ordering drivers to shut the inter-car doors if changing ends in a siding.

Doesn't guarantee everyone will comply though.

There was a death at Farringdon sidings years ago where a customer remained on the train as it was taken into the siding and fell between the cars. This prompted a host of posters for t/ops to ensure all pax are off their trains when entering sidings.