The future of the "Wimbleware"

Are you talking of Crossrail 2 aka the Chelney line? If so your definition of "not too distant future" must be somewhat different from mine, as at the mo it is purely just a vague aspiration and is absolutely nowhere even remotely close to actually happening!

The new line maps have it [the District] running to Edgware Road.

With 2 tracks to reverse trains it should be able to reverse up to around 24tph. It is not likely to need to reverse more than about 15tph.

And while I'm ranting about this, the T-Cup also implies that there are up to 9 unused hourly paths between Tower Hill and Gloucester Road, although I can't say that this is the impression one gets when standing on the platform somewhere like Victoria. Three or four, possibly...

That's why I allowed three or four

Crossrail:

One of the major objectives of Crossrail is to ease the west-east overcrowding on the Central and northern Met./Circle axis. Thus, a major investment in the new line through Farringdon will mean no additional money would be invested in fiddling about with the existing Met/Circle line between Farringdon and Liverpool Street. It wouldn't make sense.

Edgware Road Reversers:
As for Edgware Road, the plan has always been to have 15tph from Hammersmith go through to Baker St and beyond with 15-16tph reversing at Edgware Rd, 50% T-Cup and 50% Wimbledons. The constraint will be on the 2-track section between Edgware Rd and Praed St. Junction.

I cannot see that section carrying that level of traffic, splitting through the junction at 20mph and including crew changes at Edgware Rd. Even with new traction and DTG overlaps, I think 26tph might be possible if everything went right.

Remember Tubeprune's First Law of Train Throughput Planning which says, "Do your train performance and signalling caculations, including margins and dwell times, and then deduct 15% to get a realistic answer".

As I understand it, half the Hammersmith trains will be T-cup, the others will go along the existing route H&C route. As I've said before, I think a more realistic option is to have a Hammersmith - Baker St - Tower Hill - HSK - Baker St - Whitechapel service instead of the T-Cup.

The restrictions on train throughput on the SSL are the flat junctions, the terminals at Baker St and Aldgate and the layout at Whitechapel. The maximum timetabled throughput on the SSL is 28.5 tph.

The number of Uxbridge trains on the Met has been confirmed to go up to 10 tph once the S-Stock comes in. That means 4 extra trains for Aldgate - Baker Street there as well. I can't see 6 H&C plus 7 or so Hammersmith and Circle plus 10 Mets plus the extended Wimblewares working.

It is planned as far as I know. I was just reading this thread, which says:
www.amersham.org.uk/forum/ipb/lofiversion/index.php/t252.html

Train service frequency will be increased by approx. 50% on the service through Harrow. For example, Uxbridge trains will increase from 10 per hour to 15 per hour, and Chalfont services will increase from 5 per hour to 7.5 per hour.

I don't know what to think of that, since the service right now is 6 per hour, not 10 per hour on the Uxbridge branch. Even during the peak I don't think it reaches 10?

And also this, from a Customer Service Manager at TfL:

Each train on the Metropolitan line has currently a nominal 448 seats. However many of these seats are bench seats that are designated as holding 3 people, but are not up to current standards as they are only 420mm wide per seat place. The new trains will have 307 individual seat places, each at a width of 495mm.

We are required by legislation to provide wheel chair spaces on new build trains which reduce the number of fixed seats available.

The total seating capacity of the line remains largely unchanged. For example on the Uxbridge branch there are currently 4700 seats per hour, and there will remain a similar number. The amount of standing space will increase by approx. 40%.

There are 48 seats in a D stock car (44 in a driving motor) - and that's most longitudinal!

But a D78 carriage is 7 foot longer than an A60.

An R stock car seated 40; mostly longetudinal, and by looking at the diagrams, easily capable space wise of having a row of three seats replaced by perch ones. And they had 6 doors per side per car; same as a stock but in different arrangement.

All these extra trains will be moving air around in the suburbs.

Sweek - your reply #47 above quotes information from elsewhere that was last updated in September 2006...........and later in your post you quote from a reply that someone had from a "Customer Service Manager at TfL" - that was in fact a reply from Metronet, not TfL.

Since all the plans surrounding S stock were first made public, there have been numerous changes rumoured and plans actually amended (such as dropping the 8 S to Barking). The signalling contract is now being re-procesed, and internally within LUL the planned changes within the SSR service control function seem to be going round in circles with no one seemingly knowing quite what the final outcome will be.

So [to everyone] my point is really this; we can all talk about future changes to the SSR till the cows come home - those of us that will have to work with the final outcome are as in the dark as ever, and those charged with making the final decisions on what will or won't be provided are equally unsure as to what will turn out to be reality.......

From the point of view of job security or career planning, yes - but if I were a Met customer, for example, I'd be extremely annoyed..........but then again, I suppose what they don't know........

Anyway, by all means keep talking about you're ideas - you never know, someone influential at LU may sit up and take notice - but just be aware that what you may believe to be fact possibly isn't....

Tower Hill would be a real mess! There isn't really room to do that! I do like the idea of an Edgware Road to Tower Hill service!