Staff knowledge of photography rules

Well all of these locations will feature in the quiz at some point, but I'm not giving any clues as to when they will appear!

See the Quiz section if you are interested in statistics regarding locations.

I think the only thing to do is to address a letter to the transport comissioner asking for confirmation about the rules of personal photography and then carry the response around with you whilst taking pictures. Its more than dissapointing this is still happening. Almost time for the sensationalist 'Name and Shame' approach!

Do you know which guidelines apply on the Overground and DLR? (not that I've ever had any trouble photographing on the latter)

Looking on the TfL web site I found here in 'Common Questions' something which fills me with great confidence (not) in TfL/LUL and their staff knowing what the situation is: - a form of words which I might expect on an enthusiast site (like this), but not on an official one (where a definite yes or no answer is appropriate).

But given Chris M's experience it is perhaps accurate.

Hi

New to this site, so will answer this as best without ruffling too many feathers!
I think what most have to be aware of is that many station staff will be acting on their station supervisors instructions when speaking to enthusiasts who are taking pictures in a station environment.

The station supervisor is responsible for the health and safety of persons at that location at that time, so if they feel that someone is causing, say, an obstruction while photographing parts of a station/ trains, it is perfectly reasonable to ask someone to 'move on' if they feel that is the case. The term is discretionary - they do not have to allow you to access to photograph.

As states in the guidelines, if you plan to be at a location for more than 15 minutes photographing, then normally you would have to obtain a permit and go through the normal 'booking on' procedures at a station. Many SS will turn a blind eye though in some cases, say for example if the station is not particularly busy. What you have to remember, is that nowadays staff have got ever more security conscious, and will be looking out for certain types of activity at stations.

At the end of the day the last word is with the Supervisor, and if you antagonise the staff it could scupper your chances of going back there another day! Building up relationships is important - if your face becomes known to them they will usually let you carry on (within reason).

This subject will never go away and you'll never get 100% of staff of ANY organisation singing from the same rule book.

The fact is the vast majority of photographic experiences are positive ones. Of course there are exceptions but that is also the same from a member of staffs point of view as well.

The photographer that was asked not to wear an orange Hi-Vi jacket and standing near the platform end barriers.

The Photographer that launched in a tirade of abuse when they were simply asked "excuse me...." (from me)

The photographer who went around the station taking photographs of all the stations CCTV cameras and never told any member of staff they where doing it.

The commercial filming unit who set up 2 cameras with tripods on a busy platform - all without permission.

Or how about the student from some university near Manchester I think who was monitoring the air quality at a zone 1 station, when the SS asked him what he was doing he told the SS "None of your business". The student was monitoring the air quality by leaving a shoe box sized machine approx 5 ft away from him!


Sadly I work with some people who are jobs-worths. On stations, driving trains, controlling the railway. Sadly genuine enthusiasts tend to meet these people.

Oh and BTW don't book in with me at my station, by all means tell me you're about so I can pre-warn Lord and Lady Jobsworth but once you're booked on (although without an entry permit you can't book on anyway to a LU station ) you then become my responsibility during an evacuation - and TBH I'll have more to worry about during an evacuation.

A query: more so than ordinary passengers?

If you were signed on and evacuated by train, would speaking to the supervisor of the next station be an appropriate way to get in contact?

one thing i learned was its the size of your camera that counts

am more likely to be rumbled if I have a huge S.L.R rather than a small compact camera which I can just take the photo with and then slip in my pocket and walk around looking like butter wouldnt melt in my mouth

also i think too many enthauiasts get rumbled for melingering on the station for far too long, i just whip the camera out, take the photo and get on the next train, all as descrete as can be

I can relate to that as I have been challenged numerous times with my Canon 400D DSLR... I have even had hostility from an SA on Ealing Broadway when I have been wearing a photography permit and following the rules to the letter

Those that use compact cameras therefore will not have the ability to change lenses to low light examples (1:1.8 aperture lenses or even lower/faster). As a result they are far more likely to use flash to compensate, which directly contravenes section 4.5 of the conditions of carriage.

Perhaps I'm being confrontational in my approach, but what would LU/LO/TfL prefer: customers/passengers/enthusiasts using compact cameras and as a result are probably using flash, or cameras with large apertures (DSLRs) that therefore probably aren't breaking the terms of conditions of carriage and are NOT a H&S issue...

I have seen some outrageous behaviour from some minor elements of the enthusiast fraternity... using flash, trespassing etc. etc. As a result I can at times understand the utter contempt that some staff have towards enthusiasts... however that does NOT justify in any way shape or form catergorising EVERY enthusiast with the same brush!

I sincerely hope both members and visitors here would vocally condemn such activities as it threatens our hobby... see my post (#60) in the 38ts East London Line tour thread and #35 during the final day of ELL operation as examples.

Sorry to start to take this off topic but I also read an article that IIRC was in Jane's Police Review a few months ago that stated that a Constable/PCSO deleting an image or forcing an image to be deleted may be commiting a criminal act

Two points:
1) Whether the officers in question have just come out of Hendon, or whether they have been on the streets for 50 years, there is no excuse for that type of behaviour.

2) Let us just hope that this is not a regular occurrence, especially with 2012 approaching, because I fear that, at this rate, it may not just be the political wrangling over what happens to the venues after the games that lets us down!

Thanks for that, it says the film is from last year so presumably 2008.
It seems though that 12 months sadly hasn't resulted in significant changes to the behaviour exhibited by some officers.

It is fairly useful I think. Remembering though, that they cannot prevent people taking photographs in public places, stations (and other sites relating to public transport) probably don't fall into this definition and are treated as private land. The 'owner' of the land or their representative (i.e. a supervisor) can request you leave, probably without giving reason, and the police would be permitted to back them up in that scenario. However all the comments regarding police viewing (searching), seizing (as evidence) and deleting (not allowed) images would still apply.