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Post by dannyofelmpark on Dec 11, 2009 13:40:53 GMT
As drivers we have had no guidance at all (at least not so far as i've been made aware) on what to describe our trains as so under the new timetable you will still see various descriptions I shouldnt wonder I would'nt worry about guidance, just a bit of common sense i.e from Hammmersmith display circle v ald(er!)gate up to liverpool st then change to circle to edgware road all the way and from edgware road display circle v aldgate until arrival at Tower Hill then change to cirlcle to hammersmith all the way - or even better use the hammersmith v paddington after all we'll take more notice of the larger Hammersmith v paddington legend rather then circle with the hammersmith too small to see. after all im sure you can display hammersmith via paddington ( which is ment for H and C working ) regaurdless of whether you're a circle or H and C - no one will notice will they? and display plain circle line at the rear anyway that the best practice I can think of from the perception of a customer. |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Dec 11, 2009 14:25:30 GMT
From Hammersmith to Liverpool Street, show: Circle Line via Aldgate
At Aldgate, change to: Circle Line to Edgware Road
From Edgware Road to Aldgate, show : Circle Line via Aldgate
At Aldgate, change to: Circle Line to Hammersmith
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 11, 2009 15:26:17 GMT
I like that Uzair, possibly the most concise suggestion I've yet seen. However, without landing in either camp regarding the changing of blinds, I think that it would be reasonable to expect T/Ops to change the blind round where there is a bit of stand time - extra time on top of station duties; so apart from Edgware Road and Hammersmith there are bits scheduled at Glos. Road and High St. - both rails. There is also the *very* occasional bit of stand time put in at Tower Hill. However, the stand time at HSK and GRd vanishes very, very quickly outside morning and evening busy times - leaving 12 min reverse Hammersmith, ½ min at Edgware Road EB from Hm, 1 min at ERd from WB from Aldgate, 3½ min at Aldgate (Aldgate peak and early stand time is a fairly moveable feast - inner rail anyway) and 7½ min reverse at ERd. I'm not knocking the TT, but I'll wonder aloud if this is enough of a 'cushion' for recovery time. Hmmmmm.  ;D  |
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Post by dannyofelmpark on Dec 11, 2009 15:34:39 GMT
From Hammersmith to Liverpool Street, show: Circle Line via AldgateAt Aldgate, change to: Circle Line to Edgware RoadFrom Edgware Road to Aldgate, show : Circle Line via AldgateAt Aldgate, change to: Circle Line to HammersmithThe reason I suggested changing the blinds at the station before Aldgate is what is the point of arriving at Aldgate and showing circle via aldgate when you're already at Aldgate I know there is likly to be longer stand time at Aldgate, but we're only talking one or two notches on the blind. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 15:39:20 GMT
Going eastbound between Sloane Sq and Victoria last night I passed an outer rail Circle showing "Circle Line to Hammersmith". So much for the idea of drivers keeping up with blind changing  |
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Post by citysig on Dec 11, 2009 16:20:51 GMT
Let's see what goes on Monday morning! A little sooner than that. Try Sunday. The Met is shutdown, but the new timetable on the H&C and Circle will be very much in ;D Never has a timetable change generated so much heated discussion ranging from all things including customer confusion, train operator inconvenience and how it won't work, right down to who doesn't do what already so are unlikely to do it come Sunday. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 11, 2009 16:24:32 GMT
Ah - for sport try the first morning peak! |
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Post by citysig on Dec 11, 2009 16:28:38 GMT
I think the subject of what blinds should/should not be shown has every relevance to the the operation of 'The New Circle' to which this thread is titled. It has relevance within the overall subject of how our trains operate. The blinds, in some opinions, are not kept as up-to-date as some would like even now. The specific subject of the new Circle Line, whilst it does lend to the discussion of blind updating, the subject itself in the context it is being used has little to do with how the service will / will not operate come Sunday. I was merely trying to move on as some aspects of the discussion (in 25 pages) have become slightly tedious and repetitive. It's good to talk, but not on and on and on about tiny aspects that won't actually change come sunday. We still will not have drivers changing rear blinds after reformation. I thought the subject could be ended there. Clearly not. When? "a while ago now, we dispensed with "Hammersmith via Shepherds Bush"" it has only been from this recent blind change that it has changed to "via Paddington". Then I must be mistaken. I clearly work on a different line to where I thought. For some time you had available a simple "HAMMERSMITH" description, which took up the entire space within the blind window, and was without the "via Shepherds Bush." I am sure there must be a picture somewhere on here, if not on the net. If I have time later I will look. The Dot Matrix displays were a more recent change. The "via Shepherds Bush" part was removed around the time Wood Lane opened. |
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Post by citysig on Dec 11, 2009 16:31:12 GMT
Ah - for sport try the first morning peak! Well yes, now that will be the first time that has been tried. I can only hope that by Wednesday evening (when I get my first shot at it all) they will have pinpointed all the teething problems, and provided adequate solutions. Yeh right ;D ;D |
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Post by d7666 on Dec 11, 2009 17:02:34 GMT
A lot of debate yes. Kind of microcosm of the entire tube in some ways. I am looking forward to it, if only because my commute involves Baker Street -> Wood Lane / SHBMarket, so at least the theory is I have more trains. I am fed up of arriving at Baker Street ... like this morning... to see Circle 3 mins Circle 6 mins Hammersmith 11 mins ... then the H&C when it does appear is rammed full ... and all this happens to me many more times than the opposite. Of course, this is ;D *my* ;D journey, I don't use the western rim of the Circle. I have resorted several times to running Trackernet replays to try and understand if it is the particular time I am arriving on the WB platform at BAS, or if there is an obvious perturbation somewhere upstream on the inner rail, but usually nothing I can see, me being but a mere systems engineer  on a non SSL-line  . My arrival at BAS is not fixed, I use different trains from Luton to West Hampstead, different Jubilees, sometimes I let one go if they are too full (like this morning due to a PTIOT at KIL) sometimes change to Met at FIR, sometimes not, and all that gives quite spread of times, so it should be random arrival at BAS, and I *ought* to have more sucess than I do. The H&C train number I do get on does confirm I am in different parts of the timetable. What I do hope is that whatever problems ... oops sorry we don't have problems ... that whatever challenges do arise are allowed to be sorted out with time, as things need to bed down. Yes expect a certain level of chaos, and I'm sure when thing go wrong even for reasons entirely unconnected with the new TT they will take longer to sort out ... And I also hope there is not a knee jerk reaction of abandoning it after 1 week, 1 month, becasue the Evening Standard et al make a fuss, and never ever re-visiting it again. My only comment is I think it is an odd choice of dates to bring this in ... I'd have thought early in the New Year. Is there a good reason why it is now ? Oh yes ... had I not been off cranking this weekend to Germany, I would have got roped into helping out going around Circle CERs particpating in the passenger information systems upgrade that matches the new timetable. -- Nick |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 11, 2009 17:40:20 GMT
My only comment is I think it is an odd choice of dates to bring this in ... I'd have thought early in the New Year. Is there a good reason why it is now ? Presumably to coincide with the National Rail timetable changes. The Circle doesn't impinge on NR directly, but the District and Met both have to fit in with them. Observed on a trip from Bayswater to Baker Street and back. Outward, I would estimate 90% of the passengers on the platform at Bayswater let a District go, and caught the Circle following one minute behind - which was packed. On return, a good 60% let a Hammersmith go, preferring the Circle EIGHT minutes behind. Also noted that the first train I used had the discoloured car diagrams - it only seems to affect the ones over the doors, not the smaller ones over the windows. The second train still had the old car diagrams.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 17:47:58 GMT
Ah - for sport try the first morning peak! Well yes, now that will be the first time that has been tried. I can only hope that by Wednesday evening (when I get my first shot at it all) they will have pinpointed all the teething problems, and provided adequate solutions. Yeh right ;D ;D I'm off on Sunday (which should be a relatively easy day anyway) but I am early turn on Monday and not looking forward to it. It will either be eerily quite for the first few days, or it will go completely to the wall in which case i'll be on the Pinot Grigio by the time you get a stab at it on Wednesday! |
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Post by citysig on Dec 11, 2009 19:11:39 GMT
I am fed up of arriving at Baker Street ... like this morning... to see Circle 3 mins Circle 6 mins Hammersmith 11 mins ... then the H&C when it does appear is rammed full ... and all this happens to me many more times than the opposite. Of course, this is ;D *my* ;D journey, I don't use the western rim of the Circle. The first Circle is likely to be the Circle that should have been there before your arrival to the platform. If a Hammersmith had left just 1 minute before your arrival, then the Hammersmith described is just 3-4 minutes late. You probably arrive at more or less the same time each day, and encounter the same period of late-running trains each day. Just think, come the next peak-hour, it will hopefully show Hammersmith 1 minute, Hammersmith 6 minutes, Hammersmith 11 minutes. You'll be spoilt for choice ;D I wouldn't hold my breath though ;D |
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Post by citysig on Dec 11, 2009 19:13:01 GMT
I'm off on Sunday (which should be a relatively easy day anyway) but I am early turn on Monday and not looking forward to it. It will either be eerily quite for the first few days, or it will go completely to the wall in which case i'll be on the Pinot Grigio by the time you get a stab at it on Wednesday! I'll be watching closely - and if it's up the wall Monday I'll down my usual tipple in support. I'll maybe wait until the evening peak to start though ;D |
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Post by londonunderground on Dec 11, 2009 19:25:03 GMT
Are Farringdon sidings going to shut due to the new circle line?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 11, 2009 19:28:11 GMT
IIRC there's nothing booked to start or stable there in the District/Circle/HotnCold workings.
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Post by londonunderground on Dec 11, 2009 19:32:43 GMT
If Farringdon and Edgware road sidings are due to be closed where will the extra trains be booked to stable?
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Post by d7666 on Dec 11, 2009 19:57:57 GMT
Nope. Ex-Luton usually varies between 07:08 07:20 07:36 and 08:01 - thats a 53 minute spread, and because of the current FCC drivers dispute, its been even wider recently taking in 06:49 06:56 08:18 exLuton as well. It is of course entirely possible the lateness is also up to 90 min ;D but for that you'd have to synchronise late running with my Luton departure ... and if you could do that I'd be asking you to synchronise Hammersmiths with my arrival PS I take the point elsewhere upthread about linking with NR changes. -- Nick |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 20:14:37 GMT
My only comment is I think it is an odd choice of dates to bring this in ... I'd have thought early in the New Year. Is there a good reason why it is now ? It's to match the National Rail timetable change date (as someone has just mentioned) which in turn is harmonised with the rest of Europe (Swedes and Albanians excepted I think). I agree it's an odd choice - especially frustrating when you're trying to book a sleeper to Praha at a peak travelling period, but can't book more than a month and a half in advance because the European Something has decreed that mid-December is the best time for an annual review - the Man in Seat 61 has strong views on this. OT: wish I was going to Germany rather than Xmas shopping this weekend. Still, it will let me experience the first day of the New Circle if I can persuade the Mrs that Whiteleys of Bayswater is a good place to get all our presents... |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 20:43:40 GMT
The 33 trains for the new H&C/Circle timetable (WTT No.23) comes from -
Hammersmith (15), Triangle Sidings (3), Edgware Road platforms (2), Moorgate bay platform (1), Barking Sidings (12).
No trains are scheduled into or out of Farringson sidings and Edgware Road sidings are supposed to be decommissioned from the end of traffic on Saturday 12/12 (i.e. the early hours of Sunday 13/12).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 21:45:40 GMT
The 33 trains for the new H&C/Circle timetable (WTT No.23) comes from - Hammersmith (15), Triangle Sidings (3), Edgware Road platforms (2), Moorgate bay platform (1), Barking Sidings (12). No trains are scheduled into or out of Farringson sidings and Edgware Road sidings are supposed to be decommissioned from the end of traffic on Saturday 12/12 (i.e. the early hours of Sunday 13/12). Edgware Road sidings are supposed to be recommissioned for the start of traffic on Wednesday 31st March 2012, just in time for All Fools Day. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 21:58:00 GMT
Then I must be mistaken. I clearly work on a different line to where I thought. For some time you had available a simple "HAMMERSMITH" description, which took up the entire space within the blind window, and was without the "via Shepherds Bush." I am sure there must be a picture somewhere on here, if not on the net. If I have time later I will look. Destination blinds is a pet subhobby of mine, I am 99% certain you are mistaken and DStock7080 is correct. There is not a plain "HAMMERSMITH" display on the outgoing C stock blind set. The trains continued to display "HAMMERSMITH VIA SHEPHERDS BUSH even after there ceased to be a Shepherds Bush station on the H&C Line. Best you may have got was the odd driver setting the blind so the " VIA SHEPHERDS BUSH" was below the display window. There is not a plain "Hammersmith" on the new blind either. The new blind has "Hammersmith" and "via Paddington" curiously in the same size font. The purpose clearly to direct Paddington bound passengers to that train ..but in the process loosing clarity as a glance at a map may infer the train runs to Hammersmith via Paddington and Earl's Court. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Dec 11, 2009 23:12:08 GMT
I would imagine when all lines get S stock some Circle,District & H & C trains will start/stable in Neasden plus Lillie Bridge is re-opening as a stabling point.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Dec 12, 2009 8:23:03 GMT
Can anyone do a mock up of what the DMI will look like on the S stock for the T-cup? Presumably the effective font size will be smaller still?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2009 12:56:17 GMT
I'm pretty sure the DMI destination on the S Stock will change as to where the train is, so once the train he Hammersmith branch of the H&C and heading towards Hammersmith the destination will simply read Hammersmith without the via and fill the display. This already happens on the Northern line with the 95 stock.
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North End
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Post by North End on Dec 12, 2009 13:13:52 GMT
I'm pretty sure the DMI destination on the S Stock will change as to where the train is, so once the train he Hammersmith branch of the H&C and heading towards Hammersmith the destination will simply read Hammersmith without the via and fill the display. This already happens on the Northern line with the 95 stock. Doesn't always change correctly on 95 stock though. Southbound trains terminating at "Euston via Bank" is a favourite of mine, and this happens every time that destination is chosen. |
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Post by crystal on Dec 12, 2009 15:42:47 GMT
Doesn't always change correctly on 95 stock though. Southbound trains terminating at "Euston via Bank" is a favourite of mine, and this happens every time that destination is chosen. When that happens, are they using "via Bank" as a kind of shorthand to mean "not calling at Mornington Crescent"? |
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North End
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Post by North End on Dec 12, 2009 17:19:13 GMT
Doesn't always change correctly on 95 stock though. Southbound trains terminating at "Euston via Bank" is a favourite of mine, and this happens every time that destination is chosen. When that happens, are they using "via Bank" as a kind of shorthand to mean "not calling at Mornington Crescent"? It's possible, but given Celia correctly announces just "Euston", I'm more inclined to think it's a programming mistake. There's a few inconsistencies at Kennington, in the way that certain combinations will have "The next station is Kennington (Charing Cross Branch)" announced, whilst others get just "The next station is Kennington". There's no obvious logic to it, so I think it's a mistake somewhere. |
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Post by d7666 on Dec 12, 2009 17:25:54 GMT
I would imagine when all lines get S stock some Circle,District & H & C trains will start/stable in Neasden plus Lillie Bridge is re-opening as a stabling point. Is there going to be enough room for that ... thats a question ... I mean I know they are rebuilding and extending and the like, but are they really adding in that much more capacity ? -- Nick |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 14, 2009 12:51:55 GMT
For those of you still eager to actually ride on the same train from High Street Kensington to Baker Street, King's Cross, Liverpool Street and beyond- there are still a few through trains!
M-F
05.05 to Baker Street.
05.17 to Aldgate.
06.16 to Barking.
00.32 to King's Cross (comes from OR Circle)
Sat
05.05 to Baker Street.
05.17 to Aldgate.
05.56 to Aldgate.
00.32 to King's Cross (comes from OR Circle)
Sun
00.04 to Liverpool Street (comes from OR Circle)
00.11 to Baker Street (comes from OR Circle)
00.22 to Baker Street (comes from South Kensington)
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