cso
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Post by cso on Dec 10, 2009 12:07:18 GMT
Maybe it's just me, but I like to know where the trian that I've just missed was going... eg. if waiting on an Eastbound H&C line train, I want to know if what just pulled out was one of them, or a Circle or Met line train instead.
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Post by jimini on Dec 10, 2009 12:16:18 GMT
Not sure whether it's linked to the changing of the circle line or not, but one other thing I've noticed recently is that the DMI at High St. Kensington now displays "Circle Line via Victoria", whereas before it used to be "CIRCLE LINE via Victoria". Same with Wimbledon / WIMBLEDON. Makes it a lot more difficult to read if you head left down the stairs towards the rear of the platform rather than the front. I had a couple of people asking me last night what train was next because they couldn't read it themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 14:50:38 GMT
But how often, except at a terminus, do intending passengers see the blind at the rear of a train? Quite a lot on the Circle. Because the trains are 6-car, but most of the platforms are 8-car for the Metropolitan, or for longer District cars, and all trains stop at a common front cab position, when a Circle train stops there can be a substantial number of passengers walking/running forward to get it. This happens particularly at tourist points and at weekends with unfamiliar passengers, and grossly so at places like South Kensington eastbound where the entrance is at the rear of the platform. |
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Post by happybunny on Dec 10, 2009 15:20:31 GMT
I know this will make me very unpopular, but when I do C Stock I always leave one end on Wimbledon, and one on Edgware Road (obvious which is which)... simple because I always forget to change them otherwise. As we do little C stock now at Acton, and even less from Sun.. it is very easy to forget about the blind, that is why I leave it the same!
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Post by 21146 on Dec 10, 2009 15:55:45 GMT
LU have recognised that some of the new C Stock car diagrams are defective, they turn a darkish colour between Embankment and Monument and between King’s X and Moorgate. These will be replaced by 18th December. Also some enamel signage remains to be replaced at Moorgate, Victoria, South Kensington and Ladbroke Grove (I'm sure forum members can think of other places too - how about all those signs still showing the H&C to Barking as M-F peak hours only). Temporary vinyls have been requested to cover up "misleading" signs. Also S/S should be removing the yellow & black "Extended Circle" stickers from line diagrams, plus ensuring Blackfriars is still struck-through as closed (which most aren't now).
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 16:06:19 GMT
As usual us C&H drivers are being tarred with the same bad brush - I always change the blind on the rear when i'm doing H&C or prepping a Circle Line train. However regardless of what we change it to on the new Circles it will at some point in the journey become wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 16:44:08 GMT
. However regardless of what we change it to on the new Circles it will at some point in the journey become wrong. I must agree. From what I've read, you will be changing the blind more than handle turning! Totally confusing for all concerned, including passengers. |
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Post by citysig on Dec 10, 2009 20:49:04 GMT
I think we can dispense with the rear blind argument. Common practice will be as it is today, so the subject is not that relevant to the thread which concerns the new service. The S-stock will solve everyone's worries ;D
But in terms of the blinds in general, the quality must demonstrate that they are probably an ill-thought-out temporary measure. I mean, Aldergate? Who was trying to do what when that got written on the order form?
I think they've tried to be too detailed and helpful and ended up undoing whatever they tried to achieve. Adding the "via this" and "via that" has confused things, and made it so drivers will be, as my colleague says, winding the blind more than the handle. A while ago now, we dispensed with "Hammersmith via Shepherds Bush" which was also written very small below the destination. So to show the "via" is a bit of a backward step.
If I get a call from someone next week claiming the driver is showing "Circle Line" rather than "Circle Line via xxx" I can assure you I won't be advising the driver concerned to correct his/her blind. If they are heading to somewhere completely different, then of course I'll nudge the driver - let's face it there's probably going to be no end of helpful reminding coming from all sides ;D
In-car diagrams and platform signage, well I think we've hinted enough that the quality and consistency in terms of replacement locations, may reveal that it was possibly done on the cheap, just in case.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 10, 2009 21:07:13 GMT
I think we can dispense with the rear blind argument. Common practice will be as it is today, so the subject is not that relevant to the thread which concerns the new service. A while ago now, we dispensed with "Hammersmith via Shepherds Bush" which was also written very small below the destination. So to show the "via" is a bit of a backward step. I think the subject of what blinds should/should not be shown has every relevance to the the operation of 'The New Circle' to which this thread is titled. When? "a while ago now, we dispensed with "Hammersmith via Shepherds Bush"" it has only been from this recent blind change that it has changed to "via Paddington". |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 10, 2009 21:19:57 GMT
If the blinds had been well thought out, a complete journey on the Circle Line could be put in station order. That way at the appropriate station the driver can just move the blind to the next position without fiddling around.
I do agree with what MetControl has said, I don't think we should be getting worried about changing the rear blind.
I've also seen a few A stock trains with a red destination box at the trailing end. Bit like the old style SR EMUs, EPB 4CPs etc.
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Post by 21146 on Dec 10, 2009 21:47:41 GMT
Given that the 83TS had electronic blinds and set numbers, I find it odd that some form of these weren't added to C Stock on refurb, esp as this was well into the OPO era and the inability of T/Ops to change rear blinds and set numbers had become obvious. Anyway, so be it, it wasn't. As for the present, as I posted weeks ago, if T/Ops and Managers take a view that blind-changing isn't an important issue, we *will* have trains leaving Hammersmith showing "Circle Line", and eventually returning to there still labled "Circle Line". Or how about leaving Edgware Road platform 2 showing "Hammersmith via Paddington". At least that will be correct, as the next station will be Paddington (Praed St, that is), and it will get to Hammersmith, via Aldgate - eventually... A recipe for total confusion.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 10, 2009 22:14:08 GMT
I think the subject of what blinds should/should not be shown has every relevance to the the operation of 'The New Circle' to which this thread is titled. Just idly throwing my hat into the ring, as it were..... 7½ minutes in and out of Edgware Road for the extended circle reversers. How many times will there be a change of T/Ops? |
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Dec 10, 2009 22:20:07 GMT
I've said this previously (possibly this thread) but all the blind now needs is the destination, Hammersmith or Edgware Road, it's damn obvious where it's going, no need to complicate the issue. However I did discover in another thread that the average LU user has no idea that different stock are used on different lines, and wouldn't know the difference between tube and SSL, so would they even know which direction they are travelling in? I suppose with all this recent legislation all the "vias" have to be covered which for me overcomplicates the issue. If I'm on The Piccadilly and a train hurtling in says "Heathrow" then I know that I'm on the wrong platform for Arsenal tube. On that token, if the train says anything other than Hammersmith on the new Circle, I'll be going the wrong way for Liverpool Street. *Based on being at KX at these events* Easy if you know it, easy if you can read a tube map, but why over complicate it on the front of trains? It's going to Hammersmith via dozens of places, why single one out? Simple: - Circle Line (to) Hammersmith
- Circle Line (to) Edgware Road
Or is that just too easy? |
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Post by metman on Dec 10, 2009 22:27:25 GMT
That is a good idea but it may not fit. Now if the CO/CP were still running it would fit on those blinds! ;D
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 10, 2009 22:44:06 GMT
Let's see what goes on Monday morning!  |
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Post by SE13 on Dec 10, 2009 22:45:39 GMT
In theory, as all are C stock, only four destinations are needed although there would be a need some for reversers. - Circle Hammersmith
- H & C Barking
- Circle Edgware Road
- H & C Hammersmith
Plus potential reverse points? ------- By the way, whoever mentioned changing the blinds (was it this thread) has a valid point, buses seem to be fitted with potato peelers or razor blades right next to the winders. I just change the number if the bus goes on a different route and leave the destination blank..... |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 10, 2009 23:59:01 GMT
But how often, except at a terminus, do intending passengers see the blind at the rear of a train? Quite a lot on the Circle. Because the trains are 6-car, but most of the platforms are 8-car for the Metropolitan, or for longer District cars, and all trains stop at a common front cab position, when a Circle train stops there can be a substantial number of passengers walking/running forward to get it. This happens particularly at tourist points and at weekends with unfamiliar passengers, and grossly so at places like South Kensington eastbound where the entrance is at the rear of the platform. But only those passengers arriving on the platform after the train did so will not have also seen the front (and the DMIs). And most are not going further than Tower Hill, so will not care whether it's a Circle or District anyway - and the rest have plenty of time to check! So of course they should be set correctly when the train enters service or the driver changes ends, but it's not worth delaying the service to put it right if the train is diverted. The problem with simply having "Edgware Road" on the front (and back!) of a train leaving Hammersmith would be what to do if the train was going to terminate there after Paddington suburban, (perhaps to be reformed as an inner rail Circle)? It would also be highly confusing for any passenger at, say, Gloucester Road wanting to go to Hammersmith to see an Eastbound train apparently going there. Someone seemed surprised punters can't tell C stock from A stock. I've known people who haven't noticed the difference between the two types which work side by side at Acton Town! "They're both the same colour!" However, regulars at places like Wimbledon do. I recall at Kew Gardens there used to be signs telling people where the different cloured trains went - silver (or red!) for central London by District Line; blue for the NLL. This was in the days before the NLL was on the tube map, so there was little reason for the tourists to expect anything except a District to turn up. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 0:06:26 GMT
That is a good idea but it may not fit. Now if the CO/CP were still running it would fit on those blinds! ;D They fit!   |
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Post by 1938 on Dec 11, 2009 0:17:32 GMT
I know this will make me very unpopular, but when I do C Stock I always leave one end on Wimbledon, and one on Edgware Road (obvious which is which)... simple because I always forget to change them otherwise. As we do little C stock now at Acton, and even less from Sun.. it is very easy to forget about the blind, that is why I leave it the same! Ughh!! Sloppy Practice.  |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 11, 2009 1:34:21 GMT
I know this will make me very unpopular, but when I do C Stock I always leave one end on Wimbledon, and one on Edgware Road (obvious which is which)... simple because I always forget to change them otherwise. As we do little C stock now at Acton, and even less from Sun.. it is very easy to forget about the blind, that is why I leave it the same! Ughh!! Sloppy Practice. Architypal "minor lines" practice I'm afraid (as former DR M/M - and we were supposed to turn middle destination plates upside down!). |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Dec 11, 2009 5:10:12 GMT
That is a good idea but it may not fit. Now if the CO/CP were still running it would fit on those blinds! ;D Slight correction, unfortunately CO/CP Stock had metal destination plates- not blinds, R Stock did have blinds. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 6:26:22 GMT
The instructions in the late notice case say we must ensure the blind is correct. It does not say what the correct blind is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 6:27:58 GMT
Will Whitechapel remain the early morning/late evening/Sunday terminus for the Hammersmith & City line or will trains now run through to Plaistow or even Barking at these times?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 7:13:56 GMT
In theory, as all are C stock, only four destinations are needed although there would be a need some for reversers. - Circle Hammersmith
- H & C Barking
- Circle Edgware Road
- H & C Hammersmith
Plus potential reverse points? ------- By the way, whoever mentioned changing the blinds (was it this thread) has a valid point, buses seem to be fitted with potato peelers or razor blades right next to the winders. I just change the number if the bus goes on a different route and leave the destination blank..... As we are now expected to travel on a District service from High Street and intermediate stations to ensure step free interchange at Edgware Road we will also need: - District Edgware Road
- District Wimbledon
And the one H&C missed plus the miriad of reversers: |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 7:24:56 GMT
Will Whitechapel remain the early morning/late evening/Sunday terminus for the Hammersmith & City line or will trains now run through to Plaistow or even Barking at these times? To quote the official blurb: "Whitechapel reversing has been discontinued in advance of Crossrail works at Whitechapel. Hammersmith & City Line trains are now extended to operate to/from Barking during peak periods and will reverse alternately at Plaistow and Barking during all off-peak periods."Though as has been mentioned further back in this thread that don't mean it will never happen during service disruption, there are NO booked moves. |
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Post by plasmid on Dec 11, 2009 9:20:11 GMT
The solution to this is really easy, change the rear blind to just "Circle Line" that way people at least know what line the train belongs to.
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Post by Chris M on Dec 11, 2009 11:05:56 GMT
As we are now expected to travel on a District service from High Street and intermediate stations to ensure step free interchange at Edgware Road we will also need: I thought it was the Circle Line you had to take to ensure step-free interchange? |
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cso
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Post by cso on Dec 11, 2009 11:58:03 GMT
Jumped on a picadilly line Service this morning, and it definitely looks like the signs have been done on the cheap - as the people that have updated the line diagram in the train I was on apparently forgot to stick the entire sign on as all the ones I could see were peeling off at both corners!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 11:59:25 GMT
As we are now expected to travel on a District service from High Street and intermediate stations to ensure step free interchange at Edgware Road we will also need: I thought it was the Circle Line you had to take to ensure step-free interchange? Yes my typo.............I should have meant that but still would be handy to know which not to get on unless we now teach Joe Public about running numbers. |
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Post by dannyofelmpark on Dec 11, 2009 13:03:56 GMT
But how often, except at a terminus, do intending passengers see the blind at the rear of a train? East Ham eastbound |
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