castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Nov 30, 2021 15:16:18 GMT
Interesting to see that photo of Greenford ticket hall
In 1970 (and probably later), there was a separate window designated for BR Ealing branch line trains
You bought your ticket and then went up the wooden escalator to the trains
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 28, 2021 18:47:00 GMT
I'm not so worried about driverless trains
I'm more worried about driverless cars.....
......, and the thought of driverless motorbikes scares me rigid.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 24, 2021 12:27:02 GMT
Good to see the Greenford - West Ealing line included
It doesn't make the map look any more crowded
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 20, 2021 12:27:11 GMT
I have a LT map called "London"
It dates from the 1960 era and shows LT, and BR lines It also shows Croxley-Rickmansworth as a Met line
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 17, 2021 12:39:18 GMT
Maps (allegedly) being "confusing" for tourists is an assumption.
Actually it's just a pretty lame excuse for not running the best possible service pattern.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 15, 2021 15:12:46 GMT
Demand is certainly different to the past Around 50 years ago, Marble Arch - Liverpool St shuttles were frequent during the mid-day off peak (probably the most boring duty ever) This would probably compare with a White City - Stratford service today due to changing demand and shopping patterns.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 14, 2021 9:58:08 GMT
Down here in the southern wilderness, we have heard that the Boundary Commission have declared that the lsle of Wight parliamentary constituency should be split in two.
This means that the I.o.Wight railway could suddenly become interesting to the two political parties that could win these two new seats
Because of this, don't be surprised at promises of oodles of money being thrown at the remaining I.o.W. Line and the (remote) possibility of re-extending down to Ventor (whether practical or not, it sounds good to local voters).
Whether D Stock could fit thought the Ventnor tunnel is debatable
However, because of the "two constituencies" proposal for the Island, don't discount ANYTHING being promised for the I.o.W. line
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 6, 2021 11:33:05 GMT
I do not doubt the Harsig diagram, but it is dated 1933
My memory is quite clear that the Central (NOT the sidings) was only accessible from Platform 7 of the District in 1972 A different diagram would be applicable then, but I was not around at other times.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 6, 2021 9:13:38 GMT
I have to suggest that jimbo is wrong.
My memory tells me that access to the Central Line from the District at Ealing Broadway, was direct access from a reversal at platform 7 NOT from those sidings.
The sidings, actually had nothing whatsoever to do with Central/District stock moves. I have seen redundant surface stock arrive from Ealing Common directly into platform 7 Then go out, via a reversal, direct to North Acton, where they reversed again and went to Ruislip depot.
This would have been around 1972 There was never a chord. A chord is a line segment connecting two points on a curve. Carto Metro is confusing because it shows the old connection to the GWR for trains to Windsor over 100 years ago
There was only ever a facing junction from Platform 7 which others that were there at the time, as I was, will confirm
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Sept 1, 2021 15:54:53 GMT
d7666 and spsmiler
I expect that a developer suggested the idea.
Are stuffed brown envelopes still available??
Having had an insight into local government and "developers" over very many years, all the 'signs' are there......
Fortunes were made via the sale of ex-LT and LCBS bus garages, so now, what's left? Ah yes! Railway depots! After all, when history repeats itself, the price does tend to go up.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Aug 31, 2021 9:39:09 GMT
l can foresee a situation that if we did have "driverless" ( = unstaffed) trains, so many people will be tasked to sit at desks looking at live videos of trains all around the system, one day, somebody will come up with the idea of putting staff on the trains to reduce staff numbers, and making all the video viewers, all sitting at desks, unnecessary. It's the law of unintended consequences. Think of the office space that would free up, or will these people be "working from home". (That is a potential disaster waiting to happen, e.g. "I'd just gone to the front door to collect a parcel when the accident happened").
It will only require an "incident" to take place whilst the monitor viewer has 'gone for a wee' or something or a monitor to fail at a critical time, (smoke for example), for there to (have to) be an expensive about turn and a re-think that it wasn't such a good idea after all.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Jul 27, 2021 20:30:10 GMT
Hounslow West was built for the District, to District specs. LT, TfL and the Picc are newbies here
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Jul 14, 2021 9:57:40 GMT
Seems logical enough.
What's the problem with it?
Are the management asking staff to work a)longer? b) for less money? or c)harder?
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Jul 3, 2021 12:57:55 GMT
I think this thread proves that optimists and innovators will always try and find the reason "why" to do something and see how it works
Whereas there are others who will deliberately go and look for a "reason why not" to do something.
Thank goodness we do still have some innovators in this country.
"Different" and "innovative" don't necessarily mean "complex"
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Jun 26, 2021 17:04:51 GMT
It is not my intention to get into an argument, so this is my LAST posting on this (unless seriously provoked).
Again, I say look at the Carto Metro map
Ealing - Upminster cross on level grade with Wimbledon - Edgeware Road trains at Earls Court. But that is NOT the case with the return trip. SO, thinking outside the box, here's a spur of the moment 'off the wall' idea for a working - not a recommendation
1- Ealing to Edgeware Road 2- Edgeware Road to Wimbledon 3- Wimbledon to Upminster 4- Upminster to Ealing
No cross pathing required.
Other ideas are also available. They need to be. Clockwise and anti-clockwise "LOOP" services around the Circle are an idea. You just have to THINK about them, rather than simply dismiss them because you cannot be bothered to consider any change.
I now think that A60 stock and d7666 have made a good and valid point after all.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Jun 26, 2021 9:05:29 GMT
i.e. innovation stifled by the "we've always done it this way" brigade approach - which is back to what I posted above. A simple cross platform interchange at Earl's Court avoids service disruptions to other services including the Circle line. Innovations don't always work. Innovations are rarely tried. The statement by Chris L ignores the fact that currently, eastbound trains have to cross paths with Wimbledon - Edgeware Rd services. Look at the Carto Metro map, and go figure. There are so many things that could be tried, but with the "Innovations don't always work" mentality always prevailing, we get nowhere
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Jun 25, 2021 10:26:18 GMT
lt's "because"
Because:
That's the way it was always done . "If it's not broke, don't fix it" applies
Innovative ideas are always stifled, just in case they don't work Innovative ideas are always stifled, just in case they do work and are superior to what went on before, then other people are blamed for not thinking of it earlier
Nobody remembers those that didn't try, so keep your head below the parapet, carry on and collect your pension - it's too good to risk People do remember those who came up with ideas that didn't work.
Any change would be deemed to be "too complicated" for 'customers' as a reason not to implement them. The unions might not like it
New ideas require other people to think, and it's not always what they want to do.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on May 21, 2021 10:54:23 GMT
991 was none of Ealing, Alperton nor Perivale
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on May 4, 2021 18:08:01 GMT
On the old Broad Street station, I remember the old squeaky wooden platforms
When does anyone know when the last wooden platform was laid on a British Railway station??
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Apr 20, 2021 12:58:58 GMT
Horsenden Hill
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Mar 18, 2021 19:26:19 GMT
I live in Arundel
You've no idea how many possibilities there are to mispronounce it
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Mar 17, 2021 13:24:42 GMT
There is a Plaistow in West Sussex
Same spelling, but pronounced PLASStoe
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Mar 12, 2021 16:24:11 GMT
It depends on the line. For something like the Waterloo and City line, windows or lack there of will not make any significant different to perception of safety or the tiny amount of discretionary travel the line is used for. For lines like the Piccadilly that spend a large amount of time above ground, carry a sizeable proportion of tourists have parts of the route where there may be few people around then it would expect lack of windows to make a significant difference. How can you possibly say "For something like the Waterloo & City Line"? There isn't anything else in London "like" the Waterloo & City Line. That's the point, we're talking about new stock for 'ordinary lines', not the one exception that proves the rule. So you would design and build new, separate, non-interchangeable stock for the W&C? Because you won't be able to use it anywhere else.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Mar 12, 2021 14:15:58 GMT
Are we in danger of going 'off piste' when we are supposed to be discussing train stock here?
I am convinced that any advertising revenue gained by advertising inside trains where we would expect to find windows, will be wiped out with more revenue lost than gained, because many people will not travel in trains without windows. Many women will feel unsafe, and in view of a recent news story, - - - - - Do you really want a backlash from women travellers?,
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Mar 12, 2021 9:48:04 GMT
No windows?
Just wait until somebody gets attacked inside a train because nobody could see it happening from outside. Or a fire inside a carriage. Then there will be howls of anger, complaining about the madness of having no windows from the safety aspect.
Windows will become a legal requirement. The subsequent cost of placing widows in new, windowless trains will be massive.
People who suffer from claustrophobia (obviously not the promoters of this 'no windows' idea) won't travel in them
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Mar 8, 2021 13:41:49 GMT
A simple one word answer to brigham's question is "Yes"
It has been so ever since true railwaymen with years of experience were brushed aside by accountants, politicians, self anointed and self appointed armchair 'experts' with crayons, and theorists none of whom have never actually done the job themselves
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Mar 6, 2021 15:06:02 GMT
Funny really.
You used to be able to open widows on trains
Now we are recommended to open windows to prevent the spread of any virus
But now trains carry massive extra weight, and use extra electricity, to provide air conditioning because some people think it is better to spend money on this than have windows that can be opened
I wonder if in view of what has happened, future carriage designs will have to have windows that can be opened
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Feb 26, 2021 16:21:10 GMT
Wharncliff Viaduct Hanwell?
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Jan 2, 2021 12:30:01 GMT
One has a real cuckoo living in it whereas the others have clockwork ones?
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
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Post by castlebar on Jan 1, 2021 15:20:50 GMT
@ spsmiler
You mention "track rationalisation" I think "track rationalisation", or in many cases "track rationalisation errors" or misjudgements would make a good heading for a separate thread.
My own experience suggests that many "track rationalisations" or 'simplifications', are not ordered by people who actually "do the day to day job" of actually running the trains, Often they are eventually proven to be a false economy, penny pinching exercise. I suggest this Woodford case is one of many examples
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