castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jul 9, 2023 7:21:50 GMT
Exactly, Anyone who considers that on train announcements are in any way intimidating or frightening etc., should travel by bus.
Mod edit [Dstock7080]: Quote removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jul 8, 2023 15:51:54 GMT
Why?
Who are "us"?
Is that a bad thing?
Do you know of anyone else who gets "security message vibes"?
Does a male announcer cause you a problem?
Mod edit [goldenarrow]: Quote removed. Please be selective about the part of a post you wish to quote rather than the whole post verbatim, particularly if you are replying to the previous post in the thread.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jul 8, 2023 8:52:58 GMT
Back to O.P., in a cycle of trains there are two from High Street that terminate at Edgware Road and two from Hammersmith through. This leaves room for two trains from the Met main through to the City. It might be convenient to continue District line trains through to the east, but this would require a Hammersmith service to shuttle to Edgware Road which would be much less efficient with reversal time each end for a short run time. I disagree. It requires intelligent thinking "back to the drawing board". For surface stock I'd tear it (the map) up and start again. And I'd employ 'outside the box thinking', which is lacking. Don't worry about "confusing customers". We had all that with the tea cup idea and people got used to it, AND, changing line names that have been known to travellers for 100 years will be even more confusing than changing route diagrams.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jul 6, 2023 20:31:03 GMT
Instead of dreaming up new names for lines (which will do nothing but cost shedloads of money and confuse "customers"), more inventive route diagrams could be considered. I note that in Paris, "loop" services are becoming popular which cuts dwell time considerably. But 'out of the box' thinking isn't appreciated here. It's easier to sit at a desk and discuss new line names that the public will not want. We need planners that actually think about what they're planning. A novelty in this environment.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jul 5, 2023 17:31:24 GMT
RENAMING lines suggests that some people have nothing else to do
And the COST!!! ÂŁThousands, just to confuse people.
IT suggests to my simple mind that there is overstaffing, and SOME people would be better employed doing something more useful. Paying money to create confusion is economics of the mad house.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jul 1, 2023 18:52:22 GMT
Allotments in Sussex are still measured in rods. 4 rods = 1 chain. (22 yards). Chains were also used to determine the radius of a curve, (VERY useful to early railway builders).
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jul 1, 2023 17:24:18 GMT
I plan to write a blog about a jounrey I made while visiting the UK, using three different units (km, mi, mi + ch). In this day and age of blogging, is there really any benefit of mentioning the third unit i.e. miles + chains? Why can't you use furlongs?
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jun 24, 2023 8:24:54 GMT
Not necessary, as there is no longer a Hainault via Woodford service. .....at the moment You are talking about building-in flexibility here. Not TfL policy. Almost - but we're getting to the point of building OUT any flexibility........ and spending money doing it.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jun 23, 2023 12:44:30 GMT
Not necessary, as there is no longer a Hainault via Woodford service.
.....at the moment
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jun 15, 2023 13:35:46 GMT
I wonder what Brunel would have made of PEDs I wonder how Brunel would have reacted to the idea of Hanwell station, now a listed building, being considered for PEDs, there being no record of anyone falling off the platform since it was built. I wonder if PED requirements override listed building regs.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on May 18, 2023 8:42:25 GMT
After commissioning at Ruislip Depot, A stock did test runs to and from North Acton. This was before delivery via Ealing Broadway link to District Line. I believe the Central Line west end still maintains surface stock clearance for track maintenance machines from Ruislip.
But surely surface stock size track machines could more simply enter Ruislip depot from the link off the Met line without any need for the Central to maintain surface gauge ? There was no Central/Picc link at Ruislip until the 1970s, so it postdates the period we were talking about
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on May 15, 2023 19:14:05 GMT
I have it in the back of my mind that the western end of the Central line, at least as far east as North Acton, was cleared for Surface Stock. This meant that such trains could, from Ruislip depot, reach Ealing Broadway for the connection to the District Line. ok ta Absolutely correct
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on May 15, 2023 14:24:46 GMT
Photos exist of LT stock being loco hauled down to Bletchley, then the Oxford - Cambridge to Calvert, thence to Aylesbury and West Ruislip There is one photo of such stock passing Quainton Road And although that route is no longer available, it will become available again one day
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Apr 17, 2023 9:36:11 GMT
PLU I thought we had done away with using unqualified initials which are meaningless to some readers Correct, but given this is a quote, we. Ant control how others use them! I am sorry that I do not understand this response. Perhaps I am out of touch PLU has now been satisfactorily explained. I did not know what it meant, so I felt it was a legitimate question. But this new response from rincewind is one I cannot comprehend. Am I too old and senile for this forum as I only speak English, not "text"? If so, perhaps I should retire
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Apr 12, 2023 16:02:56 GMT
PLU I thought we had done away with using unqualified initials which are meaningless to some readers
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Apr 8, 2023 9:50:14 GMT
To me this sounds like what we would today call passive provision. There wasn't a need for them at that time or in the near future, but they didn't know the long-term future, so the design was done such that they could be easily added if circumstances changed and they became desirable. This seems a very sensible thing to do, even though it turns out that they haven't ever been needed, and the sort of thinking we should encourage in the present day. We certainly SHOULD, - absolutely right. But I still feel there is an attitude of "Reasons why NOT" to do something still prevailing
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Apr 6, 2023 12:26:12 GMT
Perhaps they should open the naming up to the public, and then we'd have the ' Liney McLineFace Line'. Even that would be better than "Wimbleware"
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Apr 1, 2023 19:27:51 GMT
Sitting here with a 1992 London Connections map, I'm inclined to suggest the following slightly tongue-in-cheek names: Richmond to Stratford: North London Line Clapham Junction to Stratford: West London Line Already we have confusion which will become total chaos Richmond is not in North London. Neither is Stratford is not in West London, I think you have proved my point.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Apr 1, 2023 17:33:21 GMT
I think "customers" would like to know where a train is going, not the name of the line it is on, and probably a name difficult to tie in with the train's destination The "Brunel Line" or anything like it will cause maximum confusion. Most Londoners do not know who Brunel was, let alone visitors.
"Crossrail" was fairly obvious, but "Elizabeth Line" is not.
By 'inventing' names for lines, the scope for confusion has endless possibilities
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Mar 30, 2023 18:35:56 GMT
Naming lines can too easily become political
Some dictators, once favoured fall out of favour very quickly when their misdeeds are discovered (remember the Ceaușescus in Romania?) Re-naming after such mistakes will cost more than the initial naming
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Mar 28, 2023 19:38:08 GMT
Each Underground line has its own colour. Overground lines need to be as clear as possible on the maps, with their own colours (hollow lines obviously) for instant identification. NO they don't The number of colours available is finite Many more and THAT is where there will be confusion. A veritable kaleidoscope. Soon, someone will suggest tartan for the Northern Line. More colours = more messy
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Mar 27, 2023 18:03:56 GMT
Never say never. I agree it is extremely unlikely in the present climate, and there are no serious proposals currently in any state of completion, but there are fewer barriers to an extension from Ongar than there are from termini like Chingford. 30 years ago few would have predicted the extensions to Battersea Power Station or Barking Riverside. NEVER
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Mar 27, 2023 13:58:10 GMT
I guess that to travel via the Piccadilly line they had to switch between the Central and District at Ealing Broadway - and then access the Piccadilly? Until the 1970s, withdrawn District Line stock was sent to West Ruislip via a connection at Ealing Broadway (Platform 6 = Central, Platform 7 = District) Withdrawn District stock was run to North Acton and reversed there The Ealing Bdy connection was made redundant when the Ruislip chord was built, so was lifted
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Mar 27, 2023 11:29:51 GMT
The only way the railway will ever be extended east from Ongar, is with crayons on a map.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Mar 27, 2023 11:24:12 GMT
DON'T shoot the messenger! I'm only reporting facts
If you research, you will find that it has long been (50 years?) an ambition of Hillingdon and Uxbridge politicians, (even at MP level) to run Central Line trains to Uxbridge, via Ruislip.
There have been several posts on this subject, on this site, over some (10+?) years.
It CAN be done, but is deemed too difficult and not cost effective, irrespective of the likely demand.
This is a case where those who could do something about it seem to find "reasons why NOT" rather than "reasons why". It was noted in the past that those who were most vocal AGAINST it, do not live within 15 miles of it and would never use it. But they are the majority of Londoners
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Mar 7, 2023 10:20:35 GMT
If people are "confused" by messages on S stock, perhaps they shouldn't be out on their own. Never used to hear of people being "confused" before it became fashionable. 60 years ago people travelled around the UndergrounD without any confusion, and there wasn't anything like as much signage then. But people could read maps in those distant days
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Feb 16, 2023 12:56:52 GMT
SOUTH GREENFORD is further north than much of Greenford East Greenford would have been much more appropriate, but WEST PERIVALE would have been even more accurate.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jan 21, 2023 17:52:10 GMT
Wrong way trains could cause grief at Hainault in 62TS days.During the day there were a couple of turning paths Hainault-Leytonstone-Grange Hill,but on nights could end up with the situation of having a good train but one unit right way & one wrong way.Also if the depot ended up with too many wrong way trains,the Line Controller had to be told which trains were in service wrong way round in case of push outs. My point exactly Quite how dumb do you have to be to order "handed stock" for a line with a loop at one end?
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Jan 21, 2023 11:00:47 GMT
I've always had a problem with "handed" stock Over simplification leads to false economies I remember many years ago the Picc lent some stock to the Northern, some of which had been 'turned' on the Kennington loop Once back on the Picc, it was unusable until it was all turned on the Gloucester Road triangle. A ridiculous waste of time and resources bearing in mind the Picc now has a loop at Heathrow rendering 'handed stock' a liability.
|
|
castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by castlebar on Oct 29, 2022 15:09:56 GMT
As Chris M says, contracts were arranged with such massive penalty clauses that it's cheaper to build it than pull out Just saying "Stop" and walking away is not an option.
|
|