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Post by firestorm on Apr 9, 2018 13:36:01 GMT
Hello all I'm doing some research on saloon heaters for my 62TS, which in turn has thrown up some queries. There are twelve heater elements per car, does anyone know the wiring configuration? I assume they are either all in series across the 630V, or are in say two strings of six. Heaters are about the only schematic I don't have, or at least I can't put my hand on. My query refers to 62TS, but I imagine evrything up to 72TS is the same. All help greatly appreciated I've had a look around and can't find any schematics for the 62TS, however I did find the heating schematics for the A60, D78 and C-Stock, they all share a very similar design. Depending on the amount of heaters per car, they would be arranged in usually 4 banks in parallel to one another and each bank would have the heaters in series. Each bank would have its own fuse on both the positive and negative sides. The schematics for the 62TS are mostly likely archived in paper format somewhere.
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Post by firestorm on Apr 6, 2018 20:53:28 GMT
Evening All, I had a bit of an odd query after seeing a news story. I tried googling but couldn't find the answer, so thought I would ask as it's been bugging me. I saw the fight video at green park the other where both persons fell down on to the track, and it left me wondering how they didn't get electrocuted. 2 people who have also saw the video have told me 2 different explanations, no idea if either is correct. the first was that as they had only likely touched one rail, rather than making a connection between the two they were fine. The second is that because the rail they would likely have hit is the negative, rather than the positive, they were fine as you would only get electrocuted by the positive (or both). This may be incredibly simple, but I thought you all would be the experts. Bit of an odd query, but as I say, it's been bugging as I can't figure it out. Cheers AJ The positive current rail at stations is always placed on the outer side for scenarios like this and like you mentioned, they thankfully didn't touch the positive rail e.g. complete the circuit so were okay.
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Post by firestorm on Apr 5, 2018 13:48:58 GMT
I am sitting now at Woodford, and have noticed that every evening around this time a 92ts train is stabled in the siding and seems to undergo some form of testing. The doors are cycled open and closed, the PA system announces "OPO Alarm, 1,2 3, 4, 5" and the front passenger emergency alarm is tested briefly. Also , somebody walks through the train with a torch and checks that all the inter-car barriers are correctly in place. Are there different levels of tests for these trains? How often does this type of check happen? My attention was drawn to the train by the characteristic cab "duh duh" noise when the PEA was tested. That would be a train prep that is done every 24 hours. I believe the tone is the opo alarm about to go off, normally the train radio mcb is tripped whilst in the depot. However for the OPO alarm test it needs to be cut in which also starts the opo alarm if the tbc has been set.
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Post by firestorm on Mar 19, 2018 19:40:49 GMT
Today I caught a train Westbound from Woodford in the late afternoon. We were delayed at each station to Leytonstone, and the doors were taking a long time to close. A '? train maintainer' had a look at Leytonstone and the doors were opened and closed several times during this process. When we pulled out of Leytonstone, the driver announced that the train was not long out of the depot, and the air in the doors was very cold, causing them to close slowly. I had not considered that before, but it makes sense that air pressured mechanisms might not work as well in the cold, if the pressure goes down. There is also a chance that water is in the air tanks, therefore reducing the normal capacity of the tanks, this would in turn reduce the volume of air available to operate the doors even at the same operating pressure.
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Post by firestorm on Mar 5, 2018 22:25:27 GMT
I was wondering which LU rolling stock (if any) is best adapted to run in freezing / icy / snowy conditions. The 1992ts seems to have brushes which can be mechanically lowered onto the current rails to brush away snow / ice, a feature which I haven't observed on the 1995/6 stock. On the Jubilee line, I saw a few trains with blue lights (? deicer units). Hard to say which rolling stock is best adapted, however the S-Stock has a few tricks up its sleeve to prevent adverse weather conditions from impacting it too much. For example, there is an "ice mode" that can be selected by the train operator so the train can cope with higher than normal electromagnetic interference from arcing due to ice (under normal conditions, this would flag up as a fault and cause traction faults). Furthermore the first 2 cars maintain a set level of current draw so that arcing is maintained to melt the ice. Combination of an air dryer and heating element prevents moisture/water from entering the air system so stops it from freezing inside the tanks/pipes. I think that deicing units and sleet brushes are common to all fleets. Not sure that the '09 Stock fleet includes de-icing cars or whether they are fitted with sleet brushes. No de-icing cars or sleet brushes are fitted. Not sure that the '09 Stock fleet includes de-icing cars or whether they are fitted with sleet brushes. In theory they would still need to de-ice all the roads leading into and out of the depot as well as all the outdoor stabling roads. Wonder if they do them manually? All the outdoor stabling roads have roofs apart from the staff train platforms, but yes the roads which lead in and out of the depot are done manually.
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Post by firestorm on Feb 13, 2018 7:57:08 GMT
Perhaps its being cannabalised to keep the rest of the fleet going rather than having several units stopped waiting different parts? Spot on!
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Post by firestorm on Feb 12, 2018 17:40:33 GMT
Afternoon all,
Just a query out of interest, I've been a regular traveller on the Victoria Line for quite a few years now, and have recorded which set I travel on. Over time I started to stagger my journeys to ensure I travel on a "winner", and got down to one set, 11033/34 a fair few months ago. However, I've not even seen that set, let alone travel on it, despite many trips, and dare I say, many extended waits!
I believe one set is out of traffic on depot awaiting parts, and wondered if there was a connection here. If anyone can shed some light on this, please do let me know. If nothing else, I'll get to the pub a bit quicker in the evenings!
Thanks.
This train is indeed in the depot stopped and awaiting parts. It has been stopped since 26/06/17 with estimated release date of 31/03/18.
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Post by firestorm on Jan 20, 2018 10:41:05 GMT
They had mile-o-meters on locos back in the 1960s so S Stock must do with all their computers and so on. All very interesting, how does the S stock compare with other older stocks if anybody knows? Not too sure about older stocks, but the S-Stock has a known wheel size diameter taken from the DM car D axle, this is programmed into the train data recorder (TDR), which is used to calculate the accumulated distance travelled.
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Post by firestorm on Jan 19, 2018 18:03:29 GMT
So, how long does it take for a S8 for example to rack up 25,000km? Also is there a distance recorder on the train or is it done by calculation reckoned against the rostered duties? The distance is recorded on the train and it reports back every so often. According to the work orders it seems to average every 2 months per A, B and C cycle. It also depends on which path the train is put on, I know they can put it on a "short" path if they need to run the train closer to its mileage before being called in for an exam.
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Post by firestorm on Jan 19, 2018 16:23:28 GMT
The S-Stock exams are now based on mileage and there is the following exams: A, B, C, L, R, S, X and Y exams. A, B, C's are done every 25km and they cover your basic shoes, brake blocks, gauging, underframe and general inspection, hvac filters and other things like smoke detection, door operation and some other minor testing. L & X exams, every 150km and they cover things like gear box oil change, motor greasing, lubrication, various testing of the pneumatic systems and more involved testing and inspection that you wouldn't normally do on an A, B, C exam such as splitting the gangway bellows. R exam, also done at 150km is like an interim door exam, where various tests are performed to check the doors are operating within spec and things such as sensitive edge are tested. S exam at 300km, R exam plus the mechanical components are lubricated and greased and a more in-depth inspection is done such as door geometry. X exam also at 300km, mostly cleaning of ACM/MCM areas, heaters and changing out the filters for air dryer. 000s km surely? Apologies, has been a long week and corrected.
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Post by firestorm on Jan 19, 2018 15:07:38 GMT
Bit of a random one; can anybody tell me what exams etc Underground stock routinely goes through and how often etc? I know on the mainline you have A exams, B exam, C exam and so on, but I don't know anything about Underground exams. Any info on what exams involve and how often they have to be carried out would be interesting! Thank you! The S-Stock exams are now based on mileage and there is the following exams: A, B, C, L, R, S, X and Y exams. A, B, C's are done every 25,000km and they cover your basic shoes, brake blocks, gauging, underframe and general inspection, hvac filters and other things like smoke detection, door operation and some other minor testing. L & X exams, every 150,000km and they cover things like gear box oil change, motor greasing, lubrication, various testing of the pneumatic systems and more involved testing and inspection that you wouldn't normally do on an A, B, C exam such as splitting the gangway bellows. R exam, also done at 150,000km is like an interim door exam, where various tests are performed to check the doors are operating within spec and things such as sensitive edge are tested. S exam at 300,000km, R exam plus the mechanical components are lubricated and greased and a more in-depth inspection is done such as door geometry. X exam also at 300,000km, mostly cleaning of ACM/MCM areas, heaters and changing out the filters for air dryer.
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Post by firestorm on Dec 22, 2017 10:51:51 GMT
Had a look, the white and blue LEDs are arranged alternately.
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Post by firestorm on Dec 19, 2017 21:25:02 GMT
I know this is going to sound unbelievably sad but are the white/blue indications colour changing LEDs or two types arranged alternately? Also is every unit deicer fitted or only select units? Wouldn't be able to tell you, would need to be quite close to the lights to check and that brings another problem of staring into bright LED's, I'll have a look if I get a chance. Deicer trains on units 21002 to 21056 (S8), 21302 to 21382 (S7).
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Post by firestorm on Nov 28, 2017 17:28:41 GMT
Two questions:
Is there an estimate for 21311/21312 to return to service?
Why has 21095/21096 been away so long? (Left London 22.05.2017)
u21312 is currently having its TCMS software updated, estimated release date is today. u21096 is away at Derby for ATC mods, only reason put down for missing the original release date back in 30/10/17 is process issue.
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Post by firestorm on Nov 21, 2017 0:34:57 GMT
Pictures showing the de-icer mode and PEA lights, as you would expect, if a train is de-icing and a PEA is set off, the white light overrides the blue. I'm curious to see what actually happens on an ATC-modded train in regards to the flashing/non-flashing PEA, hopefully will find an ATC train soon.
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Post by firestorm on Nov 5, 2017 20:58:16 GMT
At present there are three 'modes' for the lights, with a fourth due to be activated as part of the ongoing 4LM project. Steady orange indicates that a door or doors in that car are not shut. Steady white indicates that a PEA or PEAs in that car have been activated. Flashing orange indicates that a door or doors in that car have had a sensitive edge activation. Flashing white will indicate that the train has received a target point and is ready to depart (performing the same function as the 'ready to depart indicators' [RTDIs] on the Jubilee and Northern lines), once ATC is rolled out. Additionally, cars fitted with de-icing equipment will display a steady blue light, in a slightly different position, whilst spraying de-icing fluid. Just a slight correction there, at the moment a PEA activation is solid white as you said, however once a train has had the TCMS software updated to the latest version, a PEA activation will be a flashing white and a "ready to depart" will be solid white, once ATC is live. Couldn't tell you which trains have had the update, but the software update has started on the S7 fleet, where as the S8 update commenced back in 02/08/17. Of course, there will be trains with both lighting modes until the updates has been completed fleet wide.
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Post by firestorm on Sept 29, 2017 17:00:52 GMT
Apologies for the question. Really would appreciate it if someone might be able to advise what S7 21467/8 and 215478 are doing to day (28/9). MTIA 21467/8 is currently having mods done at Neasden depot
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Post by firestorm on Aug 8, 2017 15:23:04 GMT
Found a video uploaded to the tfl yammer site showing the differences, I didn't take the video and full credits to the original uploader:
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Post by firestorm on Jul 29, 2017 13:12:44 GMT
jamesb. You are correct. This system applies to all LU's trains except S stock. As 2009ts Victoria line trains have obstacle detection sensitive edge, the spring pressure is higher so doors don't open with the combination of door/passenger inertia and acceleration/braking. It was retrofitted to the 2009ts as things were prone to be caught when people were inside the train but were sometimes hard to remove if the platform at the next staion was on thr other side. You might ask why it hasn't been retrofittod to S stock? I stand to be corrected, but S stock doesn't seem to be prone to this problem....possibly due to the shape of the door relative to the floor. I believe that all LU trains, every double door had its own door engine therefore independent from each other, so fitting a spring back system on one door would be relatively easy. The doors on the S-Stock are operated by a single motor connected by a worm drive that drives both doors at the same time, so making one door sprung would either not be technically possible or difficult to implement. Also where the door engines are usually fitted underneath the seats, the S-stock ones are fitted overhead, so space might have been a reason for using this kind of door setup. Perhaps the obstacle detection and sensitive edge system is enough to reduce the need for a sprung door? Just my thoughts of course.
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Post by firestorm on Jul 22, 2017 15:57:25 GMT
Question. I was in the S7+1 21327-21328 few days ago and when approaching HOTH the "special" trailer 25386 displayed Uxbridge, Chesham and Amersham while the second trailer displayed Uxbridge and Chesham and Amersham. So, every single car has their own DVA/PIS? Every car has a PIS known as a Car Controller, which takes care of all the audio, visual displays, PEA, saloon speakers for that car only. The only difference is the DM car, which has a PIS System Controller, which is functionally the same as the Car Controller, but has a Digital Voice Announcement (DVA) database, the active Cab controls the audio functions and feeds the other CIS audio modules of the same Car. A Vehicle Control Unit - Comfort or VCU-C located in the MS1 car, synchronises and handles the overall CIS operation, by syncing the audio and visual displays, has route databases, contains visual messages and triggers the audio messages.
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Post by firestorm on Jul 4, 2017 17:41:36 GMT
My questions (prompted by reading (possibly incorrect) reports that an emergency brake application caused a NYC subway train to derail recently as discussed in another thread): What is the maximum safe braking rate of a tube train? Is '4 bar' the standard brake cylinder pressure that is applied across all LU trains during emergency brake applications? How is the maximum safe braking rate determined? What lead me to ask the question: The 'brake cylinder pressure gauge' (may not be right term) located under the seats at one end of each carriage on the central line seems to jump up to '4 bar' during emergency brake applications. The train comes to an abrupt halt. On the metropolitan line recently, two failed signals between Liverpool Street and Moorgate required the driver to 'apply the rule' to pass the signals at danger. I observed that the brake cylinder pressure gauge jumped to '4 bar' as we came to an abrupt stop. I know that on older trains, one door in each double leaf can be 'pushed back' a few centimeters to free small obstructions like a coat toggle which could still be trapped despite the doors being proved shut. The force required to push the door back has to be easy enough to overcome to free an obstruction, but not so easy that it would be pushed back by the forces generated by an emergency brake application. I recall that when the 2009ts was being designed, emergency braking could have caused spring loaded doors to 'push back' during maximum deceleration, so sensitive door edges was a solution to enable the doors to be locked tight shut but mitigate the risk of a passenger to be dragged. I imagine that the rate of deceleration needs to balance the need to stop the train as quickly as possible, against the risk of damaging the wheels / injuring the passengers / keeping the train on the tracks? The maximum safe braking rate on the S-Stock is dependant on what type of car it is (DM, M1 M2(D) etc), which end of the car and the passenger loading which is monitored by the load weigh system. There are set braking parameters which the train must be able to achieve, from tare weight to crush load. Without going into too much detail, here are the figures for Emergency braking in tare conditions: DM - A end 4.01 - 4.39, D end 3.22 - 3.60 M1 - A end 3.38 - 3.75, D end 3.53 - 3.90 M2 - A end 3.04 - 3.42, D end 3.04 - 3.42 M2D - A end 3.12 - 3.50, D end 3.20 - 3.58 MS - A end - 3.25 - 3.63, D end 3.25 - 3.63 For crush load conditions in Emergency braking: DM - A end 5.58 - 5.96, D end 5.58 - 5.96 M1 - A end 5.23 - 5.61, D end 5.45 - 5.83 M2 - A end 5.06 - 5.44, D end 5.06 - 5.44 M2D - A end 5.21 - 5.59, D end 5.29 - 5.67 MS - A end - 5.09 - 5.47, D end 5.24 - 5.61 There are also figures for maximum service brake, under tare and crush load conditions. The train has a EP (Electro Pneumatic) Valve of some sort monitoring each bogie and will determine the the rate of braking depending on the above factors.
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