Tube trains avoid tunnel accident

Trainstop failure?

The press really are numpties at times....

Well if everything was working properly, at least one of the trains should have passed at least one red light to get into the position that occurred, although of course there are situations where a red light can be passed legitimately. We have had a thread that discussed fixed red lights at the tail end of single-direction platforms, although I think this was brought about by one at a Piccadilly Line station (Leicester Square perhaps?).

There are circumstances of course where the situation of trains meeting head-on could occur without a train passing a red light, but I can only think of ones involving things not working as they should.
1. Signal failure leading to no aspect being displayed. I think in this scenario a signal should be treated as being at danger, and specific authorisation must be obtained to pass it (e.g. from a hand signaller on the platform).
2. Signal or track-circuit failure leading to the wrong aspect being displayed.
3. A disc shunt signal being passed. I don't know if there are any at Camden Town, but regardless a shunt signal should not be passed in passenger service (and if the BBC article is correct, both trains were carrying passengers)
4. A driver taking a wrong stick. I don't know if the layout at Camden makes it possible for a wrong-stick to lead to a train approaching another head on.

I can't remember the name of them, but signals that allow a train to draw forward to couple up to another are not used at present as trains are not coupled and uncoupled outside of the depot.

If one train had broken down and the other was approaching to assist, it would be very unlikely for one train to be going the wrong way. Normally a train would approach from the rear, and presumably only a wrong-direction approach would be tried if the train in the rear could not assist for any reason (e.g if there wasn't one, or if it too had failed) or the assist from the rear had been tried and had not worked. In any of these situations though I would not be surprised for the pax to be detrained first.

The comment that one train operator has been stood down suggests to me that initial inquiries suggest the immediate cause of the incident was error by one operator.

Was there any engineering work or failures on the Northern on Sunday that involved any unusual running patterns?

Only two trains were involved - the incident train and the other nortbound one that was re-numbered at Camden. As per the RAIB Report.

Chris. The signal that clears onto an occupied section is known as a Calling On, there are no longer any of these in use. Some shunt signals (but not on the main line) can also clear if the section is occupied.

I tend to agree with tubeprune. We are all human, and we can all make mistakes. It is for that reason that safety systems are built in at every level. But nothing is perfect. Nothing is 100% risk free.

Rather then focus the attention on criticising the driver I think it is more important to examine the situation and the safety systems which did or didn't work, and how it was sorted out.

I feel deeply sorry for the driver. We assume he made a mistake and it is very embarrassing. But thankfully nobody was hurt.

From my own limited experience very obvious and embarrassing things, which could have serious implications are easy to do - like getting your left and right mixed up when looking at an X-ray! But 99.9% of the time, somebody notices the mistake. I believe this was a 0.1% occurrence which is important and could be learned from, but not a personal attack on the driver.

If you read the RAIB report of the incident, it seems that it was the train from the High Barnet platform which went in the wrong direction, which would mean it was the same train that had been routed into the wrong platform. Therefore it must have been the driver who hadn't accepted the incorrect signal that ended up going the wrong way. In other words, it seems that both drivers had made a mistake - one taking the wrong signal, the other heading in the wrong direction.

word is, from a northern line driver i know, that tubelines had covered up the fixed red/wrong road starter or whatever it is they have at camden. (dont know the layout). not that that excuses what the driver did, but you have to feel for them. must have been a new bloke if he didnt recognise the head/tailwall or what side the platform was etc... got to feel for them though.

a bloke on the was told to reverse west to east at kings cross last year and took it halfway to euston square and stopped randomly as he couldnt see a LOS/6 car board, changed ends and started driving eastbound on the westbound road back towards kings cross. the reason he couldnt see a LOS board is that the crossover is east of KX not west and all he needed was to change ends and wait for wrong road starter to clear.

word is, he got dipped for 2 years on protected earnings. (dunno if anyone can clarify?) surely this is a precedent that can be used by his reps to help the driver who f**ked up at Camden.

he got dipped for 2 years on protected earnings

Excuse my irnorance but what does "dipped" mean? Demoted or taken off trains but at the same rate of pay?

I agree you have to feel for the T/ops involved, but wouldn't the train have been back tripped or was the error realized before the whole train had left the stn

Which was it...demoted and / or taken off driving and given a station job? How in heck do you get back after two years....after retraining presumably?

The driver must have been confused/stressed to quite a degree, as the track layout on the North and South at platform 3 are radically different.

Yes, accepting all I said earlier, didn't it cross the driver's mind that once in his cab he was closing the doors on the OPPOSITE side to previously (and the opposite to what he would expect)? He must have been well confused (and presumably totally p*ssed off since it wasn't his mistake but he was being made to take the long walk).

can't they just put a wooden block in the ground that will trip a trainstop if it goes past?

There must be a reason why not as it seems quite simple.

We have 2 drivers who have been "dipped" and every case is (quite rightly) treated individually depending on the cirumstances, history and representation the driver had.

In some cases drivers will have a route back on the front of the train, however in many more the driver will need to reapply for a train op job. Some drivers are offered protected earnings for a period of losing their train op licence, some don't.

I also think that the arrangement of platforms at Camden Town may have confused the driver. Also, as far as I'm aware the junction is not visible from the SB end of the High Barnet platform (which would have given another clue about being at the wrong end)!