RAIB investigating train dispatch incident at Holborn Feb 14

Seems like an unfortunate accident, terrible for everybody involved.

Emergency stop plungers can only work on ATO lines, they work by sending a stop code into the track, but seeing as they haven't appeared on the Northern Line, and I don't think they are on the Jubilee line, it looks like they don't want to use them any more, as they are open to abuse, or at least the seltrac system can't quite cope with it. The Piccadilly will only get these (if they chose to do it at all) when the resignalling is done, but I would agree that there should be a review into this, and some sort of action plan. Because an incident happens once every twenty years or so, doesn't make it a high risk station. By your logic, stations where there are more than 1 fatality per year should be closed for safety's sake! (I don't mean to sound harsh, but I like to use dramatic examples sometimes to help show problems with people's arguments)

I'd be surprised if that doesn't come up in the RAIB report.

A sensitive edge though cannot prevent all dispatch incidents (e.g. the Liverpool St James Street and Charing Cross mainline incidents). There should (in my non-expert opinion) be a way for a member of station staff (at least) to tell either the train or the person driving it to perform an emergency stop.

I remember it happening, it was about 1996 or so.

Two incidents in nearly twenty years isn't a particularly high rate and I'm not sure a plunger system would be worth the expenditure. A system was originally provided for the intended original OPO installation on the H&C line in the 1970s, but the idea was dropped and I'm not sure the plungers were ever commissioned.

It was 7pm on a Monday evening, the platform could have still been pretty busy at that time so the TOp might not have been able to see that the scarf was trapped on the CCTV and the SATS might have had their view obscured by other passengers. I’m pretty sure 1973s don’t have in cab CCTV so once the train had gone into the tunnel the TOp cannot see what is happening on the platform and the SATS couldn't do anything to stop the train.

Once the driver enters the tunnel. he is completely blind to what is happening on the platform. Unfortunatly, the 'last second runners' as I call them, will still try and board the train even through a 3 inch gap!!
Holborn is notorious for this.
The Central Line has in cab cctv in which the driver can see the whole platform behind him as he leaves.
This incident has been investigated internally and the driver has been cleared of all blame.

Is it feasible for a member of staff at the Piccadilly Line headwall to operate the "Traction Current Plunger" in an emergency, to shut off traction current in case of need?

I've seen this happen very often - including on both the Central Line and District Line at Mile End today. However from the RAIB's statement I don't think this was the case here - when she realised the doors were closing the woman stopped, but unfortunately her scarf didn't.

or install warning lights with loud horn - its flashes and sounds a horn when train is about leave and staff can punch emergency stop on any wall if they are near (like DLR does) if passegner gets objects trapped and person can run to emergency stop point its cuts off the power

and also if LUL invested more on platform edge doors (this would be better solution - if scarf trapped in PED doors then she won't dragged if doors closed first before train doors close

but a big Campaign would be nice to impact them a dangers of doors so say Wait for next train

The doors were closing, the passenger stopped short but their scarf got caught, flashing lights and an audible warning wouldn’t have made any difference.

As stated before the emergency stop plungers as found on the DLR and Central Line work through removing signal codes, the Piccadilly Line doesn’t have ATP so there are no codes to be removed. Discharging traction current doesn’t apply the brakes, it stops a train motoring but it will continue to coast.

Installing PEDs on a new line is relatively straightforward but doing so on an existing line while running a service would be an expensive and lengthy process. Any future trains would have to have the same door configuration as the current stock in order to align with the PEDs.

There have been numerous campaigns to try to alter passenger behaviour including taking care at the “passenger/train interface” to give it it’s official title; this is a fine example of how the money spent on those campaigns has been utterly wasted.

Google 'accidents with scarves',seems to be quite a common occurrence on all forms of transport including a rickshaw and a go-kart.

Ooh, I don't know... Imagine if they hadn't had the campaign... there'd be one per door! Wasn't there a baby buggy got pulled into a tunnel a few years back? Did they make any recommendations then?

What I saw at Harrow & Wealdstone is still imprinted on my mind to this day... And Blackpool sea front - I was four at the time, and I still get jittery around overheads. That's why the most exposure in the press of the potentially horrific consequences of this is welcome.

I wonder why a passenger didn't pull the alarm - the person with a trapped scarf must have been visible from inside the carriage...

AFAIK they never were in service but I'm sure they were commissioned as was the habit of the time, the plungers were all plated out when I began my career in 1977 and the emergency stop signals were all sacked up. Generally back then whatever new signalling was installed was subsequently 'over and back' commissioned even if it was never put into service. Just as the stage 1 Jubilee T/T gap sections were installed and commissioned but were bridged out instead of entering service.

It is entirely possible that somewhere a test emergency plunger area was trialled for OPO as back in the day LT loved trialling all kinds of things, people may recall a 38 stock car on the Northern with oval windows and carpet, or the hard wearing floor covering set in the pavement at the main entrance to Chiswick Works complex, the weather/fading paint trials on the roof of the old scientific section offices, the alternative point escapement coverings at Acton Town (AFAIK probably still in use) 41/42 W etc etc.