|
Post by 21146 on Feb 29, 2012 12:35:03 GMT
The fact that the Revenue Staff were in plain clothes seems to suggest that they were more interested in catching cerain individuals out rather than preventing it happening. On the buses they got rid of conductors, but then had to employ loads of revenue inspectors (at a more expensive rate, I'm sure). Some of the inspectors took great delight in 'interviewing' members of the public: what relevance does someone's job have to the fact that they didn't pay the correct fare? Puzzling attitude of the public too: if you were coming out of a Tube station and there were cameras and a crew filming, would you risk not paying? Also, why would you grant permission to the filmmakers to be included in the film...assuming everyone's permission had been sought? On a more general point, whereas the Channel 4 documentary a few weeks ago was just criticism of the way LU is run with no positive points, the first two programmes of this series seem to be squeaky clean without a sniff of anything negative being said. I wonder if LU had granted permission for the crew to spend a year shooting without demanding any input editorially. I would imagine LU chose which staff were to be included in the programme. They certainly did at my location, which is why I've only appeared in the background! In fact the majority of us refused permission to be filmed close-up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 12:42:46 GMT
As for mimicking the Asian Lady's poor English, I thought that was rude and patronising. Didn't she explain that she found that the foreign person she was talking seemed to understand better? It made sense to me.
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Feb 29, 2012 12:51:37 GMT
She should try it at Westbourne Park during Car-ni-val...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 14:19:02 GMT
Regarding LU Revenue Control, it was interesting to see the different tactics applied to "Flat-cap man" and "Red Headphones man". The former already had a history of aggressive behaviour yet it was the latter that was met mob-handed. I know what you mean. However, the way I understood it was that they actively went out to intercept the red headphones guy whereas the abusive thug just happened to be passing through while they were at the station gathering evidence to form a strategy.
|
|
|
Post by adehare2012 on Feb 29, 2012 16:08:06 GMT
deansullivant, I didn't realise the Ticket Inspectors had the power to actually interfere with the working of the gateline so that certain tickets were rejected and so they effectively had a captive audience. I suppose to a point I can see why they might do that if a certain station is having problems with certain tickets (maybe such as seven sisters where National Rail only has the LU gateline in and out or no gates between them and the Victoria Line.
Surely though, that defeats the whole point of the gates, ie, do the job of the Ticket Inspectors to a point but that is ridiculous.
Good for your as well for basically telling these people to get the hell out the way, stop creating a danger to the passengers and to either do as they're told or shove off out the station. As for calling the BTP, that is brilliant and I'm sure brought a smile to many a passenger at the time as these clowns were shown the door literally.
I bet you were the talk of the Ticket Inspectors for all the wrong reasons. I just wish there were more station supervisors like you who don't just roll over and let these people do what they want.
But the fact they then treated you with respect shows that firm, but fair handling will always win the day. Good for you
|
|
|
Post by adehare2012 on Feb 29, 2012 16:14:35 GMT
wyvern, she did explain, but that's still no excuse for that kind of behaviour.
She needs dealing with and fast before she mimicks someone who really does take offence at her and either report her or worse (I DO NOT advocate violence against LU staff at all, not even Ticket Inspectors)
|
|
|
Post by redsetter on Feb 29, 2012 17:13:11 GMT
what gets me about these program's it shows how to fiddle,if someone didn't know how to keep the gate open they do after watching this.it could be argued it also shows what happens if they do but the chances of being caught are slim,the statistics would be interesting on doing so would be interesting.it implies the same people in cases because they have been getting away with it for so long.
on the second "fiddle" there's no reason to have people paying more for cash fares then oyster,they now appear aligned on travelcards so why pay more for a single journey,people could be seen walking away.the next thing they will be telling how expensive it is to family/friends and everyone back home,they should have been told that there is a cheaper method such as oyster or other discounts that wasn't pointed out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 17:56:53 GMT
Instead of sniping at the Ticket inspectors from the safety of your computers put yourself s in their shoes, its a tough job in a violent city. I don't suppose either would have kept their jobs for the years they've done it unless they've done it well. I should think that there are many channels for the public to complain if they think they are not treated fairly. Not a job I would like to do today and they have my full confidence.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 21:27:48 GMT
Personally I think the ticket inspectors should have the attitude they display. At the end of the day they are dealing with people not willing to pay the fare, criminals. Criminals should not be treated well!
|
|
|
Post by tecchy on Feb 29, 2012 22:46:39 GMT
Personally I think the ticket inspectors should have the attitude they display. At the end of the day they are dealing with people not willing to pay the fare, criminals. Criminals should not be treated well! Well said that man. These people know exactly what they are doing, and then they play dumb to people that know the tricks and deal with people like that all day every day!!
|
|
|
Post by adehare2012 on Mar 1, 2012 6:59:40 GMT
Sorry, I disagree with the last 3 posts.
Ticket Inspectors surely are unnecessary on the London Underground as most if not every station has ticket barriers, which unless there are no staff, remain closed, so you have to present a ticket or Oyster Card to get through them. What is the point in duplicating this work. If Boris wants to cut down expenditure on the tube, then ditch these people (or put them into driving trains, working stations, etc) and see what happens. They wouldn't last 5 minutes in roles where they actually have to be nice to people.
I do regularly complain about ticket inspectors, in fact, every time they try the trick of blocking escalators, ticket gates, etc, as its just an inconvenience (and yes I do have a ticket, but not an oyster card) as I feel they are a danger to the travelling public and really do need to be reined in. Of course that won't happen.
So ticket inspectors should have the attitude they have. OK, so now what we're saying is that Station Staff can also have thawt attitude, as can drivers, as despite the fact they are dealing with the public, who in the vas majority of cases pay for their travle, they can now talk down to them like they are dirt all because of the job they do. I'd love to see my boss's reaction to that one, as I work in customer service as well, and often get abusive callers. However, I take pride in myself and what I do, and so don't stoop down to their level. This says more about the Ticket Inspectors than the public, as I'm sure if they weren't so confrontational, then SOME people wouldn't be either.
Sorry to disagree, but these people need to understand what customer service actually is.
Station staff and drivers by the way, brilliant people, have nothing but compliments for them.
|
|
|
Post by trt on Mar 1, 2012 9:57:16 GMT
Customers pay for what they are using. Therefore anyone who should pay but does not forgoes any kind of customer service.
|
|
|
Post by suncloud on Mar 1, 2012 10:00:32 GMT
There are ticket inspectors because there is fare evasion/avoidance going on. TfL would soon enough stop or reduce revenue protection work if it wasn't somewhat effective in protecting revenue. Ticket barriers do not prevent fare evasion. There are plenty of times/places where you can enter the system without passing through a ticket barrier. And they can only check whether the ticket/pass/oyster is valid at that station, and not whether it belongs to or is valid for the person using it. As for the term 'customer service', when they are dealing with fare evaders, they are not customers! But it does sound like there are some inspectors who do need to improve the way they conduct some of their activities, but that's true across some of those working in any given role or industry...
|
|
kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
Posts: 686
|
Post by kabsonline on Mar 1, 2012 10:30:05 GMT
If you pay for a ticket then you have nothing to worry about. If you do not pay for a ticket then you should expect to be in trouble with these ticket inspectors. I do not however agree with the way that lady mimicked the other lady as it is just plain rude. However I do agree that fare evaders should be treated in a harsh way to prevent them from doing it again. The people in the show were polite enough when checking everybody had a ticket and they were polite enough still when they caught a fare evader. There not going to just let them go. It is there job to catch them and fine them!
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,425
|
Post by Chris M on Mar 1, 2012 13:16:49 GMT
While I see what some of you are saying about not needing to avoid rudeness when dealing with fare evaders, there is no justification for this behaviour towards people who have not been established as fare evaders. Just because somebody does not tap out on a validator does not necessarily mean they are fare evading - they may have a paper ticket for example.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 15:09:49 GMT
Ticket inspectors have my full support. If I was caught without a ticket, I'd expect the worst. Sometimes the world is tough and non-pc and being wrapped up in a corporate culture doesn't always help. I just wish there were more of them doing day to day checks. I can't remember the last time I saw one.
Apart from that, an enjoyable programme.
|
|
|
Post by adehare2012 on Mar 1, 2012 15:54:02 GMT
Hmmmm, interesting.
I suppose as a season ticket holder (will be paper from now on) I should support their work, and if they were just a little more pleasent then I probably would have more time for them.
The biggest thing with me is, they don't seem to get that I end up nearly walking past them because I can't see them (the white cane tapping in front of me should give them a clue) nor do they ever seem to have the embossed ID that they supposedly have (according to LU Customer Services), so of course, how am I meant to identify them as being genuine. I'm afraid at Seven Sisters and Tottenham Hale, I am NOT going to just produce my ticket to anybody saying Tickets Please for obvious personal safety reasons, I'd sooner not have it nicked.
My only course if they are insistant they are genuine but don't have this ID is to call the Police even though I'm sure they don't like me doing it. Well tough, carry the ID with you that you are meant to have with you and you won't have a problem.
Inspectors who do carry the ID get a much smoother time from me as I can identify them easily, speaks for itself really.
This is an excellent series though, and although wondering how much detail they will go into about whawt happens when someone ends up on the tracks, I'm looking forward to hearing about how they deal with both the incident itself and how they look after the staff involved
|
|
|
Post by trt on Mar 1, 2012 16:18:58 GMT
I once got very fed up at Euston when the platform 8-11 gateline was left opened and there were a bunch of people hanging around not checking tickets. I strode up to one and asked them to check my ticket please, because, as I'd paid over £2k for it, I'd like to use it, thank you very much.
|
|
|
Post by redsetter on Mar 1, 2012 16:25:01 GMT
i thought they were condescending,you should be under any pressure to self incriminate and anyone who is read their rights by these individuals' should ask for their free and independent solicitor here and now and keep quite.
there's many reasons why this could have happened including evasion,but treating people like this is wrong.
|
|
|
Post by adehare2012 on Mar 1, 2012 18:59:43 GMT
trt - why would you ask them to check your ticket. Long as you have one, why bother wasting your time with them. If they can't be bothered, why should you be.
redsetter - I was under the impression that the only people who could caution you, and force you to give them your details were the Police. Especially as the way I udnerstand it is the fare evasion is a civil matter (hence I guess the penalty fares), its only Fraud that's a criminal offence and that needs proof.
I have also now changed my Oyster travelcard for a paper one to prevent LU/TFL from spying on me and the journeys I make and just giving this information out willy nilly to these people
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 20:40:45 GMT
This thread is drifting a little, but to clarify a couple of recent points;
When revenue inspectors caution people it is because the individual is suspected of criminal offences under section 5.3 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. If the person is not cautioned, nothing they answer can be used as evidence as the inspector would not be complying with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act.
Penalty fare notices are not a criminal sanction and are issued simply for those passengers who do not possess a valid ticket. Often they are issued where deliberate fare evasion cannot be proven or it is not in LU's interest to prosecute.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 3:00:52 GMT
And to add even with the police you are not entitled to free legal advice unless you are under arrest.
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Mar 5, 2012 17:17:39 GMT
First (of probably many) visits to our control room tonight. Notting Hill carnival featured - which is when I was filmed, so we'll see if I end up on the cutting room floor (hopefully 1 thing I said does )
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,425
|
Post by Chris M on Mar 5, 2012 17:19:13 GMT
Just the one thing?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2012 21:58:19 GMT
Anyone know why they blurred out the word '*******' from all the platform signage in the one-under sequence at the end of tonight's episode? It was quite recognisable as ******* from the above ground shots.
Modified for legal reasons - the case is ongoing and we don't want you arrested for contempt of court, which is the reason the name was obliterated (granted not too successfully at times)
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,236
|
Post by rincew1nd on Mar 5, 2012 22:02:35 GMT
After tonight's episode, I have even more respect for the ERU than I had previously.
|
|
jazza
Guess my Favourite Number?
Posts: 196
|
Post by jazza on Mar 5, 2012 22:12:29 GMT
A very thought provoking and intense episode. Massive respect is due to all who deal with these situations.
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Mar 5, 2012 22:13:54 GMT
Well I made the screen and more than once, and am now more than a bit paranoid at how I'm thinning on top ;D It is unfortunate that the scenes I am mainly involved with concern such a sad incident. Has to be said, I've seen the ERU "in the flesh" and the respect we have for those guys is immense. They were employed to fix rails and put trains back on the track. The other tasks they are given are far beyond their original job descriptions.
|
|
jazza
Guess my Favourite Number?
Posts: 196
|
Post by jazza on Mar 5, 2012 22:15:39 GMT
Anyone know why they blurred out the word '******' from all the platform signage in the one-under sequence at the end of tonight's episode? It was quite recognisable as ******* from the above ground shots. Sorry for the double post. I would think that was done to try to prevent anyone being able to identify which particular incident they were dealing with out of respect. Modified for legal reasons - the case is ongoing and we don't want you arrested for contempt of court, which is the reason the name was obliterated (granted not too successfully at times)
|
|
cso
Posts: 1,043
|
Post by cso on Mar 5, 2012 22:26:18 GMT
I think tonight's episode was quite interesting; I did wonder why they blurred ******* as well (as you could tell that's where it was from the top of the station anyway... I did wonder whether one of the controllers was you, MetControl I think the lady Bakerloo line driver is fantastic - I've been on a train once that was driven by her and her comments and PAs just cheered us up... especially as we were a bit annoyed at the time thinking we were going to miss our connection at Charing Cross. Modified for legal reasons - the case is ongoing and we don't want you arrested for contempt of court, which is the reason the name was obliterated (granted not too successfully at times)
|
|