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Post by edwardfox on Aug 23, 2011 10:37:36 GMT
It seems the very last bendy buses in service will be on Route 207 and will be withdrawn on 31 December 2011. Route 73 apparently converts to ordinary buses in 10 days or so whilst the majority of remaining bendy bus routes covert in mid-November
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Aug 23, 2011 10:41:53 GMT
I also have heard rumours that route 29 will be the first to have the New Bus for London. When the bendy goes on the route on 26 Nov' it is going to have a mixed allocation of buses from other Arriva garages/routes and return to its native Wood Green garage. You can see its a gap fill of buses too! I will miss the bendy buses. The N29 is the busiest night bus route in London, so I dont know how they are gonna combat it, unless its every 3 minutes!
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Dstock7080
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 23, 2011 11:55:55 GMT
I have the 207 going from 10 Dec?
Other routes: 73 3 Sep 453 24 Sep 12 5 Nov 436 19 Nov 29 26 Nov.
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Post by v52gc on Aug 23, 2011 12:04:06 GMT
Pity, I like the fast loading/unloading times on the 207... Back to "fighting" to get out like on the 427
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Aug 23, 2011 12:33:06 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 12:34:02 GMT
Great news another chapter in LT's history folded away forever and this time one I will not miss. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 13:52:39 GMT
TfL's policies are stupid. They need to get rid of bendy's on Central London routes, but they suit the 207
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Dstock7080
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 23, 2011 14:27:24 GMT
TfL's policies are stupid. They need to get rid of bendy's on Central London routes, but they suit the 207 You didn't think they suited the Red Arrow 507, 521 while they were there?
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Post by superteacher on Aug 23, 2011 14:43:29 GMT
Some routes were suited to them, but it was always utter madness to put them on the 38 and 73.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Aug 23, 2011 16:22:00 GMT
Although my licence says I can drive them, I wouldn't thank you for an opportunity to do so! To be honest, I can't see why they were introduced in the first place. For the sake of an extra 20 or so people, it's barely worth the bother.
As it is, they seem to have been more trouble than they were worth, and now they're being withdrawn before life expiry - A rather costly experiment!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 17:15:03 GMT
Am speaking as a 73 user - the route is going to be withdrawn between Stoke Newington, Stamford Hill and Seven Sisters. No public consultation, or prior announcement has been made by London Buses which is typical of their arrogance. That also means we have lost 2 buses over that section since the 349 was cut back to Stamford Hill late last year.
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Post by v52gc on Aug 23, 2011 17:18:39 GMT
As a passenger I prefer being able to board through any door as I find it quicker and prefer circulating and travelling standing in a bendy bus. For longer seated journeys I'll much prefer a decker and go upstairs. But fellow passengers are normally of a less desirable nature on the bendies...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 19:30:06 GMT
A case of the Kendy Bus being replaced by the Borismaster ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2011 19:37:07 GMT
I went to a talk from Leon Daniels, about 18 months ago, to a 'professional' audience, when he was still with 'Wirst' group, (er .. sorry First). Mr D is now head of TfL Surface Transport.
To cut a long story short, he predicted the 'Borismaster' would run to a few prototypes, and then quietly put to one side. His verdict on Bendies was simple, there would not have been the hostility, particularly from the cyclists, i.e. Boris, if TfL had given route allocation a bit more thought. Already noted, the 38 and 73 were disastrous, streets too narrow and awkward turns in both Hackney and Stoke Newington. Ridiculous!
Fine for routes like the 207, relatively straight with heavy flows both ways all day, which Mr D had managed at Centrewest. Also Pete Hendy introduced the 607 express 20 years ago with a small fleet of refurbished Lynx's and Nationals; this really needs a tram, another TfL PR disaster, but that's for another time. But fine on 507 and 521 Red Arrows too, the current buses are as bad as Merlins!
What's the odds that, if BoJo loses and Ken wins, of Bendies coming out of store for 6 weeks next year to run special 'O' buses, that will even be allowed in the Olympic lanes. They'll move the punters and relieve the trains .....
Meanwhile, anyone for celebrating the last night of the Bendies, sadly we can only toast them in Perrier? (Does a spritzer look much different in a green bottle?) Tee - hee!
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Aug 23, 2011 19:58:49 GMT
Bendies were trialled in Southamptob by the city council in the early 1970s; they used Leyland Nationals from the Netherlands. Jump forward many years and Southampton CityBus was sold to First. Wright Solar Fusion-bodied Volvos were purchased and I think prophesised to have a 7-year life. With the extreme right-hand turns and narrow streets in tne city they rapidly became dented and were withdrawn early.
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Dstock7080
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 23, 2011 20:30:40 GMT
Meanwhile, anyone for celebrating the last night of the Bendies, sadly we can only toast them in Perrier? The bendies have done quite well toasting themselves over the years in London !
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Post by edwardfox on Aug 24, 2011 0:04:47 GMT
Pity, I like the fast loading/unloading times on the 207... Back to "fighting" to get out like on the 427 I believe the 427 was only introduced because the 207's Uxbridge terminus couldn't manage bendy buses
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Post by v52gc on Aug 24, 2011 5:57:17 GMT
Yes, i forgot about that, it all seems so long ago now.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 24, 2011 6:46:46 GMT
Interesting thread this one. Having known Pete Hendy and Leon Daniels for years, I remember Hendy's comments when the DMSs were first intorduced: "heaps" he would call them. He had a radical plan to change the 28 (then RM operated from Wandsworth to Golders Green) from RMs to minibuses running at high frequency. that plan came to fruition many years later. He was a conductor for Pioneer Coaches at Richmond on the 235 up and down Richmond Hill.
Needless to say it was unpopular and didn't really work; he also planned to shorten a lot of the routes. That seems to work. But by this time he was high up in LT.
Quite why the artic buses don't work is a bit of a mystery as they seem to work very well abroad. I see them in use in small towns and villages, as well as cities. I done a bit of work on an RM in Luxembourg earlier this year. I went to a small village where there was a company called Demy Cars. Expecting a wooden shed with a couple of coaches and said RM1180, I was shocked to find a 20 bay workshop, 8 buses deep, with one of the most modern fleets I've ever seen, everything from minibuses to the latest hybrid artics and luxury coaches. It appear the Lux government pays for the new buses.. and these artics serve rural villages as well as Luxembourg city!
BTW, Pete Hendy has a rather derogatory nickname at Pioneer Coaches which I won't repeat on here for fear of embarassing him!! ISTR he was in his gap year at the time, about 1970-ish!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 6:51:03 GMT
Although my licence says I can drive them, I wouldn't thank you for an opportunity to do so! To be honest, I can't see why they were introduced in the first place. For the sake of an extra 20 or so people, it's barely worth the bother. As it is, they seem to have been more trouble than they were worth, and now they're being withdrawn before life expiry - A rather costly experiment! Not so expensive, you can now find Arriva and Go Ahead’s old London Bendies in Leicester, Brighton, Liverpool and Malta, one of the few countries that has right hand drive. Also Bendies could carry around 140 passengers compared with around 80 on a double-decker. Am speaking as a 73 user - the route is going to be withdrawn between Stoke Newington, Stamford Hill and Seven Sisters. No public consultation, or prior announcement has been made by London Buses which is typical of their arrogance. That also means we have lost 2 buses over that section since the 349 was cut back to Stamford Hill late last year. There was a London-wide consultation on the withdrawal of Bendies, it was called the 2008 Mayoral Election, Boris made in very clear in his manifesto that he’d get rid of them and that is exactly what he did. What's the odds that, if BoJo loses and Ken wins, of Bendies coming out of store for 6 weeks next year to run special 'O' buses, that will even be allowed in the Olympic lanes. They'll move the punters and relieve the trains .....! Bus companies don’t leave buses sitting around idle, they’ve already been farmed out to other cities. Even before he was elected Boris had to admit his claim that Bendies had killed cyclists wasn’t true, Bendies were involved in three fatal accidents, none of them cyclists. Although Bendies did have a higher rate of accidents than all other buses in London when you compared them to normal buses on similar routes the rates were virtually identical.
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Post by edwardfox on Aug 24, 2011 7:45:49 GMT
Why didn't the artics work? 1. Remembering a certain European country, if the leader of something says something often enough and vehemently enough, people will begin sharing his view irrespective of their own original perhaps totally neutral view. BoJo had an illogical hatred for the bendys and he never missed an opportunity to voice this view in public. 2. British drivers (and cyclists) generally show a lack of respect for buses that seems rather unique to this green and pleasant land. They seem to look upon the bus as a challenge - hence the flood of cars rushing to pass a bus when it is obvious he is trying to pull away from a stop. The length of a bendy bus presents a more interesting challenge, and when the challenger loses, it is the bendy bus that automatically gets the blame. 3. Routes chosen for bendy buses in London were presumably thoroughly checked in advance, and the problem seems to be parked vehicles which BoJo could have solved easily had he chosen to do so. Had our exalted Mayor not hated bendy buses, they would have surely remained in service for a good 20-30 years.
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Post by ducatisti on Aug 24, 2011 10:29:19 GMT
The only other places I have seen them in operation are Birmingham and Brussels. In Brum they seemed to keep mainly to the middleway and the other large roads. In Brussels they went down some narrow roads, but not as many as they do in London. I think London is busier for longer than these places. I certainly don't think the routes were properly checked.
Are you sure about the no cyclists bit?
On the lack of respect point:- My own experience has been that Bendies seem to be more aggressively driven (nudging forward on pedestrian crossings, shoving out into traffic, taking "interesting" lines round other traffic. Riding on them seems to be a much more lurching experience too. Not scientific, but I'm happy to see them go.
Also, one thing that annoys me when driving/riding - busses that signal and don't go. A bus at a stop signals left when picking up, and then turns off the left signal. So far so good. Then they stick the right signal on, you slow down to let them out and they don't make any move. So you pull past them. At which point the darn thing tries to pull out. Which leads to gesticulation.
Also, as others have said - Boris said he'd remove Bendies if elected, he got elected and they went. Given the usual lambasting of politicians for *not* keeping their promises, whatever one's vies on the busses are, the fact he has done what he said he would is surely a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 11:34:07 GMT
Are you sure about the no cyclists bit? “They wipe out cyclists, there are many cyclists killed every year by them” Boris, ES, 12.09.07 There have only been three fatalities, only two when he said that, both pedestrians. The third was a passenger caught in the doors and dragged the enxt month. Boris later changed his statement but obviously it didn’t get as much publicity as the original and so some people still think it’s true.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Aug 24, 2011 11:48:31 GMT
I'm not a big fan of the Bendy-bus...I use routes 29/253 about 3 times a week and will always choose a double-decker given the choice. More likely to get a seat,better behaviour of passengers (the only place I've EVER been pickpocketed was on a Bendy 29)....these are the main reasons. As a cyclist I find them intimidating due to their length and the pushy driving style adopted by many drivers. I will be interested to see how things change once the Bendies are gone...
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Post by edwardfox on Aug 24, 2011 12:12:42 GMT
If London bus drivers (any type of bus) didn't have a "pushy" driving style, the bus would never get anywhere because other drivers are generally so aggressive. Is this only in London or do you get aggressive drivers out in the sticks (Lincoln)
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Aug 24, 2011 12:34:08 GMT
I tried to post earlier but something went awry! A year ago, on a day trip into Germany from The Netherlands, we ended up in a nice city with a U-bahn, trams and motorbuses. I was amazed to see yellow M-B Citaro bendies identical externally to the London ones save for lhd...and they they looked as though they had not caught fire!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 15:17:28 GMT
There were three fires between December 2003 and March 2004 due to a fault on a hose in the engine though onyl two of them were in service at the time. All 130 buses were withdrawn and the faulty hose modified. In 2007 another Bendy caught fire from a fault in it’s heating system.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Aug 24, 2011 15:27:17 GMT
If London bus drivers (any type of bus) didn't have a "pushy" driving style, the bus would never get anywhere because other drivers are generally so aggressive. Is this only in London or do you get aggressive drivers out in the sticks (Lincoln) No, we just have car drivers that haven't got the foggiest what a bus indicating means. They use the bus stops and (lack of) bus lanes as drop off points or parking spots. As a rule, a slight amount of aggression is needed otherwise we'd be stuck in the bus stops all day long, people round here simply won't allow buses out, so you need to keep edging and edging until you've made it. But the amount of cars that try and fly up the inside lane at junctions and roundabouts defies belief, quite where they think they are going to get is beyond me, so we just keep going and leave them to sort their own mess out, usually by having to mount the kerb, or slamming on to avoid colliding with the bus. Another classic car driver move is in a line of traffic, they will always choose the bus to pull out in front of. Absolutely every time without fail. Quite why they believe that it's better to pull out in front of 11 tons of metal is beyond me, but there you go. In summary, they aren't particularly aggressively driven in this area, but drivers have to use the size to their advantage, and "invite" the cars to let them out. That all said, I did find that driving a decker seems to command a better respect from car drivers. Not much, but certainly enough to notice a difference.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 17:15:12 GMT
Meanwhile, anyone for celebrating the last night of the Bendies, sadly we can only toast them in Perrier? The bendies have done quite well toasting themselves over the years in London ! That sounds like the Hungarian bendy buses we had in Portland, which tended to catch on fire when not breaking down. Consequently they are long gone and we get by with normal buses light rail, street cars, and bikes.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2011 19:28:47 GMT
Bendy buses and Bendy trolley's (trackless trolleys) work great in San Francisco but the roads are wider and straight
Xerces Fobe
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