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Post by auxsetreq on Feb 6, 2011 21:26:13 GMT
Re the above...............
Seeing that most of The Underground is not underground, how will a driverless set-up deal with a stalled train on some of the huge above ground sections between stations? For example a train stalls due to snow and ice under the shoes and a member of staff is required, and this has happened quite a lot during this cold winter, to scrape the rails to get it moving. What will happen to the passengers on board with no one to assist them?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2011 21:59:42 GMT
Maybe the passengers could do it themselves.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Feb 6, 2011 22:16:36 GMT
I didn't realise that TOps are still allowed to do anything with the juice rail directly, aside from short them?
Erm... superheated air from a compressor and nozzle at the front of the train connected to temp/weather/humidity sensors?
The three suggestions seem good ideas regardless of whatever the end game is.
I would however comment on the problems that PEDs present, and the fact they lock a certain design of train into a line. For example the jub runs 7 long cars whereas 8 short cars might in the future be more desirable, except the doors wont match up.
I read somewhere that a benefit of the four-rail mid earth system is that in the event of an earthing fault on either rail the other automatically compensates, providing the full voltage. I don't know if this is not allowed now though.
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Post by auxsetreq on Feb 6, 2011 22:30:43 GMT
*****Erm... superheated air from a compressor and nozzle at the front of the train connected to temp/weather/humidity sensors?*****
You mean like a flame thrower, sounds good. Also I've designed an ice scraper for punters to use. It could be installed in an "In an emergency break glass" cabinet so they can scrape the rails themselves should the train stall in the middle of anywhere. It's hard wearing as it's made entirely of metal so they can really get to grips. It's all becoming obvious that staff on trains aren't needed at all - Auto flame throwers and a Metro reading ice scraping punterage with radar dishes/missiles to detect/deal with obstructions and Doppler devices to provide the music and cake.................
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Post by singaporesam on Feb 7, 2011 2:12:18 GMT
Re the above............... Seeing that most of The Underground is not underground, how will a driverless set-up deal with a stalled train on some of the huge above ground sections between stations? For example a train stalls due to snow and ice under the shoes and a member of staff is required, and this has happened quite a lot during this cold winter, to scrape the rails to get it moving. What will happen to the passengers on board with no one to assist them? Well you could choose not to make areas that are difficult to secure fully attended driverless operation, especially places like north of Wembley Park , east of Barking etc. Driverless doesn't mean unmanned , most driverless systems have as a minimum roving staff , others have all trains attended at certain times of the day. It gives the management the ability to deploy staff where they are most beneficial . This type of mixed approach is what is being done in Nuremberg, the benefits of driverless come in removing human perturbations on operations needing short headways, on parts of the system with large headways the benefits are minimal. Most people who haven't seen full driverless don't appreciate the amount of perturbation caused by human activation of door close and the impact that has on overall system performance.
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Post by v52gc on Feb 7, 2011 7:49:27 GMT
But "the amount of perturbation caused by human activation of door close" is a result of instructions to close the doors when appropriately judged by a human. If the drivers are to close doors after a certain time then those instructions would be given... Short headways though, a different driving style would need to be taught and learnt and encouraged after new signalling is installed; and a computer or electronics would adopt such a style instantly. In my conclusion, both automated and manual each have their own advantages and unfortunately its probably impossible to reap the benefits of both simultaneously.
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Post by auxsetreq on Feb 7, 2011 13:02:51 GMT
****Most people who haven't seen full driverless don't appreciate the amount of perturbation caused by human activation of door close and the impact that has on overall system performance.**** Actually I have, in Singapore* no less, but in that "fine city" you have the society to have a driverless system. In London one of our representatives for Eurovison was filmed pi$$ing up an ATM at 3am. Quite a juxtaposition in how to behave, and behave they don't on The Tube. Also earlier this week I changed terminals at Changi and took that little two car auto wobblemat with the headmistress voice - Skytrain I think it's called. Just as the doors were closing some Jap nitwit rammed his cases in the PEDs delaying the departure. Fine the bastard......... But, driverless should mean unmanned, no one on board at any time. A horizontal elevator system with all the benefits of not paying staff to operate it. So, if you're going for a halfway measure with staff sometimes on, sometimes not and even more staff to man platforms to stop other nitwits from jamming PEDs/train doors open then personally I can't see any benefits whatsoever. Witness the Friday night wine bar bint teetering down the escalators at Bank where the curve would prohibit the installations of PEDs. Tottering like Olly Murrs on high heels she makes her way to the train's open doors, doesn't make it and goes straight down the hole. Seen that on quite a few occasions, I can tell you, but as I was there and saw it she lived to guzzle another bottle of Chardonnay............. So, even more platform staff to prevent and come to the aid of such behaviour on a driverless set-up. Returning to my original question about a driverless train stalled in the middle of anywhere. Could you imagine the delays while staff from one of the stations on either side walked to the defective train to ice scrape/fix the fault? That's if there are staff available at those locations. Meanwhile loads of punters are panicking away trying to break-out...............So, Im gonna make a radical suggestion. You could even call it a paradigm shift. It's new, it's novel, proactive and forward thinking - all that blurb. Why not.........wait for it..............have a human being on the front of the train monitoring the road ahead and monitoring the train's on board driverless systems. Ready to fix and even ice scrape should a problem arise with the train, and of course deal with emergency evacuations. Anticipating and monitoring passenger behaviour, ready to deal with door obstructions and the like and doing it that way. The advantage would be one person per train, rather than loads of staff on every platform to make sure the doors don't get interfered with. As I said it's radical solution to this driverless problem of stalled trains and norty punters. The only thing I'd keep from what's been discussed earlier is the flame thrower. I particularly like this idea. Not to melt ice n snow, but to use on the pi$$heads who won't get off at the end of the line at night. I think I'll suggest this to Boris......... *A video I made a few years ago on a driverless train in Singapore. Apparently I wasn't supposed to do it, but as you can't do much legally in Singapore I now feel a right crim. I was lucky not to do bird for this, but there are loads more similar vids on You Tube, so I'm not the only transgressor............. Nopo gets ever nearer on The Tube. The dust reported is from the flour used to make pieces of cake. The Drain, Vic n Jubbly all had probs this morning. Which is why the featured ES pic is of the Central......... www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23921092-wrong-dust-on-the-line-brings-another-day-of-chaos-on-the-tube.do
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 13:48:10 GMT
I didn't realise that TOps are still allowed to do anything with the juice rail directly, aside from short them? We cover ice scrapping as part of ATOR or whatever they call it these days. I was told the main reason why PEDs couldn’t be fitted to all sub-surface platforms was that you needed straight platforms, can anybody provide an example of PEDs on a curve. Otherwise Bank is going to need a bit of rebuilding. Does anyone see either Boris or Ken happily announcing to the public that the Central Line will be shut down from Liv Street to Holborn for x-number of months while they straighten Bank? Let’s face it, they’d have to shut the stations while the PEDs were being installed anyway and remove the trains from service a few at a time to make the necessary mods. This is why retro fitting is far harder than starting from scratch, wish I could find more about Line 1 and how they’re going about it. All academic anyway, no money, no driverless trains, pointless discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 14:39:39 GMT
Does anyone see either Boris or Ken happily announcing to the public that the Central Line will be shut down from Liv Street to Holborn for x-number of months while they straighten Bank? Let’s face it, they’d have to shut the stations while the PEDs were being installed anyway and remove the trains from service a few at a time to make the necessary mods. This is why retro fitting is far harder than starting from scratch, wish I could find more about Line 1 and how they’re going about it. All academic anyway, no money, no driverless trains, pointless discussion. Over here in Hong Kong, the MTR had its first PED (well they're called Platform Screen Doors here) installed in 1998. By 2005 every underground platform had PEDs installed without line closures.... The MTR had a 10c (0.8p) surcharge on all tickets to fund the installation. It's quite irritating seeing the MTR in a way as it was planned by many British people who have created a brilliant system that works incredibly reliably and effectively. When looking at London's underground one realises how much further ahead things are here. Look at the fuss being made over Crossrail - every MTR line is at or near Crossrail standards and there has been a rolling program of construction since the 1970s. Now the MTR is different etc, the same argument is wheeled out about LU being the exception every time. I accept it is different and I also accept HK is different in that the MTR makes a profit - not wholly from running trains but from their other holdings too. However, there doesn't appear to be a vision of what how LU wants to move in the future. I suppose that's the problem of having an elected government in charge of the transport.... Having said that, the MTR retains drivers on all lines apart from a shuttle to Disneyland. That reflects the low cost of labour here but also the fact that these trains carry such a huge number of people that you wouldn't want to leave stranded anywhere.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 7, 2011 15:01:32 GMT
With reference above to HK, here is a pic of Fortress Hill station with a gentle curve: tinyurl.com/6kzrqsb
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2011 21:46:05 GMT
Westminster platform on the Jubilee is slightly curved as well www.route79.com/assets/images/westminster-jubilee.jpgGoing on the number of times Jubilee PEDs and train doors have to be opened / closed / cycled in the peak due to obstructions, and the PED failures also caused by passenger 'interference', not sure how automatic door closing would perform here in the UK.
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Post by singaporesam on Feb 7, 2011 23:48:18 GMT
Its easy to throw up bank as an example of why PEDs can't be done. But it is not the main reason or cause behind LUL's lack of progress, the chief problem is the " let's do safety at the cheapest cost possible using QRA to justify our actions" management approach. Anyone who believe that the sensitive edges on Victoria Line have done anything to improve platform safety is deluded- it was however cheap compared to PEDs. I bet someone did a fantastic QRA to show why it was a better choice than PEDs. Until the culture of using QRA to justify half baked changes, LUL is a lost cause.
At least when Wilf Newton and Dennis Tunnicliffe were at the top there was the decently modern metro vision of the future and changes were positive. What is there now ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 7:34:48 GMT
We all agree it could be done but still no one has answered the basic question of where the money would come from. Doesn’t matter who’s running the show it’s who’s holding the purse strings and right now that’s George Osborne who doesn’t appear to be in a spending mood. Before him it was Gordon Brown who gave us PPP and what a wonderful success that was. Boris wants driverless trains, Peter Hendy wants driverless trains, I’d bet Mike Brown would dance down the halls of 55 singing hallelujah if he was told he’d be getting driverless trains but nobody wants to pay for them. Face it, having drivers who occasionally go on strike is cheaper in the short term and thanks to our current political and economic situation no one is interested in long term. Btw the way; Forest Hill, call that a curve, this is a curve….. upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Bank_station_Central_line_eastbound_look_west.JPGupload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Bank_station_westbound_Central_look_east.JPG
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Feb 8, 2011 9:53:11 GMT
Why can't gap fillers be incorporated with PED mechanisms so that the PEDs open at the same time as they extend?
Also not sure everybody in this thread seems to be agreeing it could be done, given money?
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Post by auxsetreq on Feb 8, 2011 10:02:10 GMT
It's not just driverless trains, that's the thing. You've got to rebuild/enlarge miles upon miles of deep level tube to enable emergency evacuation walkways, and so much much more. Places like Singapore and elsewhere in-built all this from scratch on what appeared to be a money no object policy. The cost of converting The Tube to such a set-up would be astronomical, along with the cost of the constant shut downs. Considering the first train to drive itself on the Underground was in 1963 this must of been looked at time and time again by the boffins, accountants and Olly Murrs' choreographer, and the cost seen as so prohibitive, and above all so risky, that it's a non starter. Let's face it, packing a long driverless sardine can with over a thousand piece-of-cake eating, Bob Crow hating right wing lemmings and shoving it down a twelve foot diameter rabbit hole and hoping/expecting it to keep coming out the other end incident free is all rather Alice In Wonderland. I read somewhere recently, it may of been on here, that there are people not yet born who will be on the front of and operating London tube trains in years to come. I totally agree, but by then I won't care as I'll be a few molecules of fart gas bobbing about the stratosphere and being blamed for global warming rather than potentially wrecking the royal nuptials............
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2011 11:16:20 GMT
Why can't gap fillers be incorporated with PED mechanisms so that the PEDs open at the same time as they extend? Also not sure everybody in this thread seems to be agreeing it could be done, given money? I don’t think anybody is saying it can’t be done rather opinion seems to split between those who think it could be converted in a short period at minimal cost and those who think it would take ages and be hideously expensive. The evidence suggests that LUL and most politicians of every hue would like nothing better than to get rid of all those troublesome employees, they’ve doing an excellent job of de-staffing the stations and would jump at any opportunity to get rid of the ones on trains and signals. The only logical explanation for why they haven’t done so already when the technology exists has to be the cost. I did ask if anyone could come up with a better reason and no one has.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Feb 8, 2011 11:36:59 GMT
It's not just driverless trains, that's the thing. You've got to rebuild/enlarge miles upon miles of deep level tube to enable emergency evacuation walkways, and so much much more. Places like Singapore and elsewhere in-built all this from scratch on what appeared to be a money no object policy. Paris Line 1 is having none of this done while converting to driverless operation. Admittedly, it's not a deep level tube system.
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Post by singaporesam on Feb 8, 2011 12:44:10 GMT
Why can't gap fillers be incorporated with PED mechanisms so that the PEDs open at the same time as they extend? Also not sure everybody in this thread seems to be agreeing it could be done, given money? I don’t think anybody is saying it can’t be done rather opinion seems to split between those who think it could be converted in a short period at minimal cost and those who think it would take ages and be hideously expensive. The evidence suggests that LUL and most politicians of every hue would like nothing better than to get rid of all those troublesome employees, they’ve doing an excellent job of de-staffing the stations and would jump at any opportunity to get rid of the ones on trains and signals. The only logical explanation for why they haven’t done so already when the technology exists has to be the cost. I did ask if anyone could come up with a better reason and no one has. Confucius said " A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" That step should have been W&C or Victoria . If LUL doesn't start somewhere it will never go anywhere.
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Post by auxsetreq on Feb 8, 2011 12:52:52 GMT
Confucius said " A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" That step should have been W&C or Victoria . If LUL doesn't start somewhere it will never go anywhere. What Bollox!!! - It goes everywhere every day every week every month every year. What do you think it does day in day out? Thousands of safe passenger journeys being being done right now.......**** ****which at this time of writing has the all singing all dancing award winning self driving Central Line suspended due to systems failure - all of it. So much for computerisation. And the DLR driverless tram set-up part suspended with a person under a tram. Paris has cut n cover, wide double track tunnels just below street level. The Tube has twelve foot sewer pipes up to and over three hundred feet underground with lines that run above ground way way out into the suburbs...................
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2011 7:10:05 GMT
Confucius said " A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step" That step should have been W&C or Victoria . If LUL doesn't start somewhere it will never go anywhere. Indeed, W&C would be the perfect place to start, so why haven’t they made that step? M O N E Y They don't have it and until they do NoPO iwill remain a fantasy. Shame as I hate working down the drain
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Feb 9, 2011 20:55:40 GMT
The W&C 'upgrade' was just a cheap political and publicity fix. Granted some work was done down there, but how much more could have been done?? - ATO, PEDs - The line is an idea one to do serious mods to as it closes early each night anyway and is shut on sunday.
The platforms are a joke. Instead of the step free humps being for just one doorway why wasn't it for the whole platform? Infact you've still got the NSE idents for the old W&C stock doorways in the platform. Rubbish.
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Post by singaporesam on Feb 10, 2011 2:56:21 GMT
The W&C 'upgrade' was just a cheap political and publicity fix. Granted some work was done down there, but how much more could have been done?? - ATO, PEDs - The line is an idea one to do serious mods to as it closes early each night anyway and is shut on sunday. The platforms are a joke. Instead of the step free humps being for just one doorway why wasn't it for the whole platform? Infact you've still got the NSE idents for the old W&C stock doorways in the platform. Rubbish. Political - yes , cheap -no. Therein lies the issue, for the time the W&C was down and the work that was done , the additional cost of PEDs and necessary systems for driverless would have been a small fraction of the total upgrade. The problem is in the politics , once one line is done , it creates the expectation that others will follow. Also if it all goes wrong and the system is perceived to be less reliable or worse than before , it would kill any further roll out. So as this was politically destined to be the first big win of PPP, it had to be quick and make PPP look good, it had nothing to do with cost- it could not overrun, and it could not fail- political fear prevented driverless operation on the W&C being in the PPP - nothing else.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2011 7:38:40 GMT
Ben – thought occurred to me on gap fillers, it might be possible for someone to get stuck in the gap with train doors and the PEDs closed. Ok they’d have to be pretty damn stupid but it would be a risk, think we could be looking at corporate manslaughter charges.
I suspect if you want PEDs on the Central you’re going to have to straighten Bank and probably Notting Hill Gate too. Ka-ching!
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Post by Chris M on Feb 10, 2011 9:56:26 GMT
I remember reading somewhere that HMRI or whoever were not happy about authorising any future PEDs on manually driven lines. If this is true, then PEDs as a standalone option were not possible. So the cost-benefit calculations had to be for ATO and PEDS (which will obviously cost more than just PEDS) or neither. Additionally my understanding of the PPP is that it required the infracos to do specific things and to get a specified level of service improvement, which is not the same as getting the greatest service improvement you can. Given these, and the whole nature of the PPP animal, the infracos were motivated to spend the least amount of money they could to deliver the improvements they were required to. There was no incentive to spend more than was required to get a better end product - even if ATO + PEDs on the W&C would give sufficiently more benefit to justify the cost than retaining manual driving without PEDs. While I've not seen the calculations I'm not sure it would - as I understand it the major constraints on the W&C's passenger throughput are the length of the trains, terminal throughput and the number of trains. Given the space constraints that have been discussed on this forum many times, none of these are fixable until you get into the territory of a complete rebuild.
Remember that as with things like education and hospitals, the bean counters that rule the roost in 21st century Britain see transport as an expense not an investment.
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Post by auxsetreq on Feb 10, 2011 10:34:26 GMT
I've come up with a cheap alternative that'll go along way to the introduction of driverless trains on the deep level tubes. *Curtains instead of PEDs.* This will create a psychological barrier in the punter's mind not to overstep the yellow line. Paul Simon or in-house? I'd go for in-house. The original *sex* moquette or the new occultish *landmark* to match the train seats. Bint with bump, bint with brat and bloke with stick at certain doorway locations for the VIP access of those mentioned. Platform staff along the whole length of platform or auto-draw? The latter obviously as this'll keep down costs. Flapping-in-the-wind problems can be overcome by making sure the curtains are heavily starched and flame proofed. Why flame proofed? Because my next step-towards-driverless operation will need some kind of deterrent to prevent punters from sticking their footsies in the doors and causing delays. A modification of the automatic super heated compressed air de-icing nozzles ( as suggested here by a very knowledgeable poster ) could be installed under the doors linked to a sensitive edge. If an automated warning to remove the offending appendage is ignored, a blast of butane powered flame will turn the offender into a torched creme brulee. Right, that's the tunnel platforms sorted, now to the outside, or upstairs................. .......This all comes down to stalled trains twixt stations. In normal circumstance trains would pass between stations with 100% reliabilty day after day after day with no probs whatsoever, just like the 92 stock does.............but not on this day. A hiccup and a little burp occurs. A location? ...........hmm, I know, Debden to Theydon, a very long section, it's snowing, train stops due to build up of ice under the trainers and because so many punters have been dealt with by the footsie-in-the-door flame thrower equipment, there's no more butane left for the automatic de-icing nozzles. So it's time for the punters to DIY, or in this case DI-Themselves. Not only are there emergency all metal handled ice scrapers in "break glass in emergency" cabinets for punters to use, but there are emergency hair driers too. With simple instructions to tell them to "clip brown wire to furthermost outer rail and clip blue wire to the middle" they can then blo-dry the rails free of ice and give themselves a Marcel wave in the process. However, there is a risk that someone could touch the pozzi n give 'emselves a jolt which'd make 'em do an Olly Murrs dance routine, fly off the track and into an adjoining farmer's field and impale themselves on the horns of a goat. For the sake of driverless operation this is a risk worth taking, but the punters involved will still be required to touch-out, so Oyster readers will have to be installed in every cess............ That's it, sorted, done. Driverless Tubes are now possible. I'm gonna E Mail this to Boris and no doubt it'll all be implemented for the Ollyimpix...............
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Post by phillw48 on Feb 10, 2011 12:11:15 GMT
I've come up with a cheap alternative that'll go along way to the introduction of driverless trains on the deep level tubes. *Curtains instead of PEDs.* This will create a psychological barrier in the punter's mind not to overstep the yellow line. Paul Simon or in-house? I'd go for in-house. The original *sex* moquette or the new occultish *landmark* to match the train seats. Bint with bump, bint with brat and bloke with stick at certain doorway locations for the VIP access of those mentioned. Platform staff along the whole length of platform or auto-draw? The latter obviously as this'll keep down costs. Flapping-in-the-wind problems can be overcome by making sure the curtains are heavily starched and flame proofed. Why flame proofed? Because my next step-towards-driverless operation will need some kind of deterrent to prevent punters from sticking their footsies in the doors and causing delays. A modification of the automatic super heated compressed air de-icing nozzles ( as suggested here by a very knowledgeable poster ) could be installed under the doors linked to a sensitive edge. If an automated warning to remove the offending appendage is ignored, a blast of butane powered flame will turn the offender into a torched creme brulee. Right, that's the tunnel platforms sorted, now to the outside, or upstairs................. .......This all comes down to stalled trains twixt stations. In normal circumstance trains would pass between stations with 100% reliabilty day after day after day with no probs whatsoever, just like the 92 stock does.............but not on this day. A hiccup and a little burp occurs. A location? ...........hmm, I know, Debden to Theydon, a very long section, it's snowing, train stops due to build up of ice under the trainers and because so many punters have been dealt with by the footsie-in-the-door flame thrower equipment, there's no more butane left for the automatic de-icing nozzles. So it's time for the punters to DIY, or in this case DI-Themselves. Not only are there emergency all metal handled ice scrapers in "break glass in emergency" cabinets for punters to use, but there are emergency hair driers too. With simple instructions to tell them to "clip brown wire to furthermost outer rail and clip blue wire to the middle" they can then blo-dry the rails free of ice and give themselves a Marcel wave in the process. However, there is a risk that someone could touch the pozzi n give 'emselves a jolt which'd make 'em do an Olly Murrs dance routine, fly off the track and into an adjoining farmer's field and impale themselves on the horns of a goat. For the sake of driverless operation this is a risk worth taking, but the punters involved will still be required to touch-out, so Oyster readers will have to be installed in every cess............ That's it, sorted, done. Driverless Tubes are now possible. I'm gonna E Mail this to Boris and no doubt it'll all be implemented for the Ollyimpix............... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Feb 10, 2011 12:25:38 GMT
;D ;D ;D I'm flattered you're calling me knowledgeable. Personally I thought the idea was just a lot of hot air.... Geddit? Hot Air. I get the slightest sneaking suspicion you don't think this could be done, auxsetreq? Or, that were it financially and politically possible, you would be against it?
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Post by auxsetreq on Feb 10, 2011 13:53:14 GMT
;D ;D ;D I'm flattered you're calling me knowledgeable. Personally I thought the idea was just a lot of hot air.... Geddit? Hot Air. I get the slightest sneaking suspicion you don't think this could be done, auxsetreq? Or, that were it financially and politically possible, you would be against it? I'm definitely for this Ben. In fact I've contacted two guys called Dimitri and Sergie who could do Boris a deal with ex Soviet kit that could be adapted. But, before the heat nozzles are deployed on the trains a test firing would have to done *out in the field* so to speak. My target for nomination is the most irritating person in London. No not Blob Crow, me or even Olly Murrs. I nominate the nomadic blasted bastard bagpipe busker who de-camped to the bottom of the escalators at Liverpool Street a few nights back. A test rig could be set up and aimed at the offender during a rendition of *Because He Was A Bonny Lad* Targeting the nozzle at the sporran and then firing, we should hear the pitch of the pipes rise several octaves................
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Post by singaporesam on Feb 11, 2011 5:38:12 GMT
Ben – thought occurred to me on gap fillers, it might be possible for someone to get stuck in the gap with train doors and the PEDs closed. Ok they’d have to be pretty damn stupid but it would be a risk, think we could be looking at corporate manslaughter charges. I suspect if you want PEDs on the Central you’re going to have to straighten Bank and probably Notting Hill Gate too. Ka-ching! Happened once that I know of, in Shanghai in July 2007 on a platform where doors had been retrofitted. I'm told that the threshold gap was just under 200mm so the gap higher up the car would be more As for HMRI..... I've seen documents from HMRI relating to PEDs on Phase 1 in Singapore and would not wish to comment about their history or competence in this area.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 11, 2011 9:42:08 GMT
Regardless of whether they are competent to set the rules, they are the rules LU has to play by. You can't ignore them as being inconvenient.
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