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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 20:35:08 GMT
CULG says that U-tubes are installed between Hounslow Central and Hounslow West, like those at Hammersmirth and Finchley Road. (and Queens Park?) No glass tubes at Queens Park.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 3, 2009 23:15:06 GMT
No glass tubes at Queens Park. How far could an Overground train get if it was routed towards Kilburn Park, and what would stop it eventually?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2009 23:31:31 GMT
The signalling on the approach to the diverging point north of QP North Shed is such that a negative shoe must be detected before the route will clear for the Bakerloo Line. I therefore suppose it is technically impossible for an LO train to be routed towards LU unless someone was really determined.
However, speaking hypothetically and assuming it did happen by some quirk of fate, I don't think an LO train would get far because my photos of QP North Shed shows the roof line just above a 1972 Stock train.
So, the obstacles in the way would be -
1. The North shed building roof (first point of contact for demolition). 2. The bridge under Harvist Road (a more solid object to get under). 3. The tube tunnels at the bottom of the ramp .....
Keep dreaming - it just ain't going to happen!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Dec 3, 2009 23:56:25 GMT
Its a damn shame that the R stock tour to Portsmouth mentioned elsewhere on here didn't occur. Perhaps it would have led to the preservation of a working unit, or at least an NDM to make one up.
Surely the future for such tours would be to fit ATP equipment for the lines? As more lines loose conventional signalling its going to result in even less variety on stomping ground.
I hope this goes ahead! Will be very interesting to see. Just out of interest, what rules govern the opperation of the 38ts? Or is it that everytime a tour is organised event specific rules are written as part of a risk assessment?
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Post by 21146 on Dec 4, 2009 16:21:47 GMT
Moorgate anniversary date!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 4, 2009 21:59:51 GMT
The signalling on the approach to the diverging point north of QP North Shed is such that a negative shoe must be detected before the route will clear for the Bakerloo Line. I therefore suppose it is technically impossible for an LO train to be routed towards LU unless someone was really determined. Keep dreaming - it just ain't going to happen! That's reassuring! How did it work before 1970, when the 501s had negative shoes? It's difficult to envisage any existing LU surface stock getting there now, unless they ever build the Croxley Link and extend the Bakerloo back to Watford Junction again. (oink oink, flap flap)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2009 9:10:55 GMT
That's interesting and the short answer is I don't know.
However, at that time there was a real BR signalman in a real BR signalbox just north of Queen's Park North Shed, which was "Queen's Park No.3".
Perhaps it was the signalman's duty to check whether the approaching 'Up' or SB train was BR or LT - a bit 'primitive', I know!
QP No.3 was abolished (30.01.77) when Willesden (New) took over the area and also Stonebridge Park. North of Stonebridge Park the "Power House" box (by then controlling just an emergency crossover) was then closed but the emergency crossover remained and if required was "released" from Willesden (New).
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 5, 2009 13:09:41 GMT
That's interesting and the short answer is I don't know. Er.. *puts hand up at the back of the class* - you know those A3 copies... It was all tied in with the British Power Railway Signal Co describers - I'm pretty sure that the description was 'checked' on track 5408 - the note on p50 (Fig 7) says track 5408 was ' track for certain controls in Queens Park No 3' - in other words if the approaching train did *not* have a Bakerloo description then the points couldn't be swung for the approaching train to go through the sheds. I've got a bit more detail in an appropriate peril - I'll dig it out after ringing a quarter this afternoon!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 5, 2009 15:51:09 GMT
Right - although this is exceptionally off-topic - 1260 changes of Bob Minor, 38 minutes and a couple of libations later ;D ;D When the preparatory work for the opening of the new panel in Wllesden (New) took place in 1977 the details are in Supp. to TC 47/76) the control for approaching SB Bakerloo trains was transferred to the new panel - the BR/LT crossover was converted to power working and renumbered 106 : Queens Park (e) No 106 crossover will be controlled by train describer from Willesen (New) station signal box. A time release facility is provided for use in the event of an incorrect description being transmitted or a failure of the equipment which will enable the route to be changed 30 seconds after track circuit T5408 [1] has been occupied by a train. [1] Track Circuit T5408 was the length of line between the "emergency" crossover north of Queens Park - Nos 105 in this peril and signal QP 4 which was the diverging home for SB trains (Queens Park/Kilburn High Road).
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Dec 5, 2009 23:21:11 GMT
2. The bridge under Harvist Road (a more solid object to get under). Harvist Road? Is that the one that you exit the station onto, as I always thought it was Salusbury Road?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 6, 2009 0:12:56 GMT
2. The bridge under Harvist Road (a more solid object to get under). Harvist Road? Is that the one that you exit the station onto, as I always thought it was Salusbury Road? The railway people may, for their own reasons, call it the Harvist Road Bridge, but according to the A-Z, Harvist Road is the one running parallel to the railway, and Salusbury Road is the one that crosses it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 13:55:22 GMT
You're dead right - my mistake. Senior moment (yet again! )
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Dec 8, 2009 12:09:48 GMT
Surely the future for such tours would be to fit ATP equipment for the lines? As more lines loose conventional signalling its going to result in even less variety on stomping ground. Even by your creative standards, Ben that's a good'un!! By the time they've fitted one sort of ATO (which is I assume what you mean) for the Vic, another for the Central, a third for the Jubbly, etc. etc. the train would be too heavy to move. Which it wouldn't actually anyway, coz undoubtedly the three systems would clash resulting in no movement at all.....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 11:30:09 GMT
Dragging this back to the 38 stock Piccadilly outing. Having had dinner with Bob Bird the man who gets his hands dirty, and makes these trips happen over the weekend. He confirmed the date was to be the 28th Feb 2010, subject to one of the motors having some retifictation work done on it. Predicted two trips too T5 plus round the loop, one assumes there must be some short tripping to fit it all in? I guess we'll have to wait for the TTN.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2009 18:34:58 GMT
I really hope it will happen
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Post by Tomcakes on Jan 9, 2010 16:09:27 GMT
How come its always a 38 stock for these special trips? Doesn't the LTM have any other type of trains they can use, for a bit of variety. I wouldn't mind doing this but it seems a bit of a waste of money as I rode the 38 on the Jubilee Charing X one in the summer. Considering the 38 stock is, AFAIK, the only currently serviceable full set of LTM stock, it's probably a matter of default! It is good to see that these trips are continuing, in an age where the paperwork required doubtless makes lesser mortals cry. Instead of moaning, let's give Bob and his colleagues a pat on the back and look forward to further such trips in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2010 22:01:23 GMT
Off topic but..... is there any news on the 1960 Cravens tube stock? IIRC Underground News reported about 18 months ago that the bogies were having work undertaken so that it could gain a technical compliance certificate - or something like that!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2010 22:02:49 GMT
Dragging this back to the 38 stock Piccadilly outing. Having had dinner with Bob Bird the man who gets his hands dirty, and makes these trips happen over the weekend. He confirmed the date was to be the 28th Feb 2010, subject to one of the motors having some retifictation work done on it. Predicted two trips too T5 plus round the loop, one assumes there must be some short tripping to fit it all in? I guess we'll have to wait for the TTN. Excellent stuff. Hopefully I'll be working down there come the day as well! ;D
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Post by elo10538 on Jan 12, 2010 7:42:00 GMT
In reply to rob, I believe that the Craven Unit is having its braking gear overhauled at REW.When re-fitted it is hoped to gain a CTC to again be able to run future railtours. Some minor bodywork repairs are also being made to the 38TS trailer.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2010 22:28:24 GMT
Could the Cravens 38ts trailer be connected to the ltm 38 train to provide higher capacity on the railtours?
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Post by mowat on Jan 13, 2010 0:16:19 GMT
No not unless it was reconverted first.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 13, 2010 1:20:46 GMT
Does this 1938 trailer have 2 compressors or does each 1960 DM have a compressor each?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 13, 2010 4:49:16 GMT
Each trailer was fitted with two. One of the reasons that more 1938 trailers werent converted to run with the cravens units was because of the high cost of conversion of the 38 trailers, not sure if this relates to the provision of compressors though. However if anyone could expand on this point it'd be much appreciated.
Perhaps a project for the future would be converting the 38trailer back into a three car 38ts unit and for the Cravens to take a couple of the many standard stock trailers lying about so both trains could enjoy an increased capacity.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 13, 2010 8:26:21 GMT
I'd like that, the Cravens unit repainted to its correct Aluminium finish with a couple of pre-1938 trailers from Acton. Not sure there is much of them left sadly!
The 1938 trailer can go into a 1938 pair from the IoW. Wishful thinking no doubt. It does beg the question, what will happen to the remaining 38ts when they are withdrawn? I suspect there will be a genuine reluctance to scrap them.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 13, 2010 10:13:17 GMT
Its an interesting question, but I've got a feeling regrettably there wont be that much practically done to save them. You just have to look at the standard stock cars saved from the IOW to see whats a plausible future. Its shocking that someone isn't saving these carriages, which are roughly 80 years old. If they were mainline carriages no doubt there'd be a massive fund raiser to restore all of them to at least static condition. Further, just look at what happened to the Alderney Set. Was it 10177? The unit was the only 38unit to run on every then tube line at some point. Was it really ravaged by the saline air to such a structurally compromised state?
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Post by mowat on Jan 13, 2010 11:51:25 GMT
I understand that the bodywork was tissue thin in some places on 10177/11177, and that is why 1959 DM's 1044/1045 from the heritage train were exchanged with them. See page 3 on the link www.ltmuseum.co.uk/assets/downloads/Friends_News_-_January_2008.pdfI agree on the Standard stock front, while the funds and willpower may not exist at the current time (especially with the Q Stock project ongoing) these cars should be put undercover and steps taken to prevent any further deterioration. I know that 5 out of the 13 surviving cars are in the LTM depot already but I am sure that the other 8 could have a future even as a source of spare parts should a set ever operate again.
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Post by mowat on Jan 13, 2010 12:01:12 GMT
The 1938 trailer can go into a 1938 pair from the IoW. Wishful thinking no doubt. It does beg the question, what will happen to the remaining 38ts when they are withdrawn? I suspect there will be a genuine reluctance to scrap them. I think the six remaining 483 units will be running for some time yet (at least the end of this decade) since there are no plausible replacements on the horizon, and now South West Trains have bought them all for £1, I think they will probably keep them going for a while longer, after all the only other option if the line remains in its present form, would be to buy more tube stock i.e. 1967/72 when they become available.
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Post by 21146 on Jan 13, 2010 14:33:20 GMT
I though photography was banned at T5? If so that will be an interesting problem for both sides. Yeah, no doubt it'll be a case of "We're running a special train, and at premium prices, but you're not allowed to photograph it..."
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2010 23:08:26 GMT
Any news on this?!
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Post by elo10538 on Feb 12, 2010 11:30:53 GMT
Last I heard was that the NDM would definitely need to be lifted before any further trips were undertaken.
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