rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 23, 2009 13:17:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 15:06:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 15:28:25 GMT
I like it too. No silly double stripes for the DLR or Overground either
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 23, 2009 16:11:18 GMT
So much to colour in though, where to start?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 23, 2009 16:41:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 16:44:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 16:47:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 17:12:21 GMT
But at least it's acurate as opposed to the TFL one unless you zoom in on the 2 boxes which tell you travelcards and oysters will not be accepted, you would'nt tell by the lovely colours.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 17:16:03 GMT
Not sure its 100% accurate, they seem to have missed off Romford - Upminster. Shurely shome mishtake...
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 23, 2009 17:53:08 GMT
I think the new map that TfL have done is a winner. If they stick to advertising services to each london terminii for NR then on the regular tube map they can colour the NR symbols in the same colour as used on this map. And if that the case, there is finally meaning to what is being shown as an interchange, something lacking since the BR squares were introduced by Hutchinson.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 18:06:05 GMT
Here's the bad news:
Travelcard holders will not be able, apparently, to use PAYG top up funds to make extra journeys out of their travelcard zones on NR (as they currently can do on LU, LO and DLR) - unless they first get an "Oyster Extension Permit". In other words, they'll still be in the absurd position of having to queue to get an extension ticket before travelling.
This completely obviates the whole point of Oyster PAYG - that you can add extra money (on top a travelcard) and be able to make unexpeted journeys out-of-zone without having to queue to buy another ticket. The whole point of this concept is lost with this ridiculous OEP concept. We're no better off than before.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 23, 2009 18:20:23 GMT
Here's the map as a PDF: LinkDated January 2010, hehe. I think having the ATOC logo and zones on theirs makes a hash of what they're trying to do (What you can do now, and what you will be able to do).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 18:32:42 GMT
PAYG system is a great feature permitted by the Oyster card. i use it every time I come to London. I think we'll be able to implement on Paris "navigo" card by... 2050 ! A guy from the Paris area board for transports (STIF) replied to me that there was no demand for such a feature!!
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Post by 21146 on Nov 23, 2009 18:42:57 GMT
Not sure its 100% accurate, they seem to have missed off Romford - Upminster. Shurely shome mishtake... It's there, in black.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 23, 2009 18:47:26 GMT
The TfL map is clearer with the exception of the implication that PAYG is valid on SE high speed services and on services to Heathrow, which is shown much better on the NR map.
The NR map though says that PAYG will not be valid on Romford to Upminster services? Is this a mistake or is there some reason for it?
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Post by superteacher on Nov 23, 2009 18:50:19 GMT
Here's the bad news: Travelcard holders will not be able, apparently, to use PAYG top up funds to make extra journeys out of their travelcard zones on NR (as they currently can do on LU, LO and DLR) - unless they first get an "Oyster Extension Permit". In other words, they'll still be in the absurd position of having to queue to get an extension ticket before travelling. This completely obviates the whole point of Oyster PAYG - that you can add extra money (on top a travelcard) and be able to make unexpeted journeys out-of-zone without having to queue to buy another ticket. The whole point of this concept is lost with this ridiculous OEP concept. We're no better off than before.Well, we are better off, because PAYG customers can use all of National Rail!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 23, 2009 19:20:08 GMT
We're no better off than before.Well, we are better off, because PAYG customers can use all of National Rail! But unless you are going to one or two specific Zone 1 stations, NR Oyster fares will be nearly double those of LU. Off peak fares Epping to Z1 (any) £2.40 Harold Wood Z1 (Liv Street) £3.20 Harold Wood to Z1 (anywhere else) £4.30 Still not a level playing field.
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Post by 21146 on Nov 23, 2009 19:37:32 GMT
Odd that the map shows White City - Wood Lane as an interchange but the new line diagrams on stations for the extended Circle do not.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 20:11:10 GMT
Agreed quite clear. One thing that could be mis-leading for tourists would be the expectation of a 'turn up and go' service on NR services. An example would be a tourist at Lon Bridge waiting for a FCC service to Kings X. Until 2015 they'd still be better taking the Northern. But that's a minor point and one that is impossible to explain on a map.
What it's very good at is showing the alternative rail choices. The map will be quite a blaze of colour and even more busy when the ELX 1&2 and Strat. International ex. are added too.
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Post by superteacher on Nov 23, 2009 20:47:19 GMT
We're no better off than before. Well, we are better off, because PAYG customers can use all of National Rail! But unless you are going to one or two specific Zone 1 stations, NR Oyster fares will be nearly double those of LU. Off peak fares Epping to Z1 (any) £2.40 Harold Wood Z1 (Liv Street) £3.20 Harold Wood to Z1 (anywhere else) £4.30 Still not a level playing field. [/quote] Maybe not, but at least you will have the convenience of being able to use Oyster on all forms of transport, which gives you more flexibility. It will cost you £4.30 as a cash fare anyway, but at least with Oyster you won't need to buy a ticket. Also, these NR fares will still count towards a travelcard cap.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2009 21:26:00 GMT
[/quote]
Off peak fares
Epping to Z1 (any) £2.40 Harold Wood Z1 (Liv Street) £3.20 Harold Wood to Z1 (anywhere else) £4.30
Still not a level playing field. [/quote]
Not a level playing field, no but the cost of a single comes down from the current £5 to Liv St to £4.30 for anywhere in Zone 1. A saving of both time and cash should not be scoffed at in at the best of times let alone in a recession.
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Post by 1938 on Nov 23, 2009 23:11:01 GMT
Here's the bad news: Travelcard holders will not be able, apparently, to use PAYG top up funds to make extra journeys out of their travelcard zones on NR (as they currently can do on LU, LO and DLR) - unless they first get an "Oyster Extension Permit". In other words, they'll still be in the absurd position of having to queue to get an extension ticket before travelling. This completely obviates the whole point of Oyster PAYG - that you can add extra money (on top a travelcard) and be able to make unexpeted journeys out-of-zone without having to queue to buy another ticket. The whole point of this concept is lost with this ridiculous OEP concept. We're no better off than before. It seems the TOC's are insisting on this and Boris has given in. I think it rather strange that Boris is publicly saying it only affects a minority but is important to stop fare dodging.
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Post by Tomcakes on Nov 23, 2009 23:25:53 GMT
Here's the bad news: Travelcard holders will not be able, apparently, to use PAYG top up funds to make extra journeys out of their travelcard zones on NR (as they currently can do on LU, LO and DLR) - unless they first get an "Oyster Extension Permit". In other words, they'll still be in the absurd position of having to queue to get an extension ticket before travelling. This completely obviates the whole point of Oyster PAYG - that you can add extra money (on top a travelcard) and be able to make unexpeted journeys out-of-zone without having to queue to buy another ticket. The whole point of this concept is lost with this ridiculous OEP concept. We're no better off than before.Well, we are better off, because PAYG customers can use all of National Rail! Surely they can't use all of National Rail - as presumably only guards in the London area would have Oyster readers?
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Post by 21146 on Nov 24, 2009 12:21:24 GMT
Not sure I prefer the routes colour-coded on the map by main line termini instead of TOC, though both have their merits.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 24, 2009 13:34:28 GMT
Whilst I like this map, I don't like the title "Oyster Rail Services in London". It shows HS1 and Heathrow Express/Connect, yet has little boxes saying that travelcards and PAYG isn't valid. Surely it is not an 'Oyster Rail Service' then? Also, just noticed: "Station names in black are served by at least 4 trains per hour from 0930 to 1600, Mondays to Fridays" All the station names are in black (except the termini), including: "Stations with daggers are served by fewer than 4 trains per hour from 0930 to 1600, Mondays to Fridays"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 17:37:43 GMT
Oops! Well spotted.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 19:36:55 GMT
at least you will have the convenience of being able to use Oyster on all forms of transport, which gives you more flexibility. It will cost you £4.30 as a cash fare anyway, but at least with Oyster you won't need to buy a ticket. Also, these NR fares will still count towards a travelcard cap. But the whole point of the convenience of using extra top-up cash on top of your travelcard will be lost when trying to do this with NR becuase you'll still have to queue up to get an extension permit! That's just the same as currently having to queue to get an extension paper ticket. I had been looking forward to occasionally jumping on a tube in zone 2 (with a zone 2-3 travelcard with some extra top-up cash stored) and travelling out to somewhere in zone 5 on NR rail wothout the hassle of haing to get an extension ticket (like I can currently do, say, from tube to DLR). This inane propasal leaves me practically in no better situation. I'll STILL have to faff around getting this permit, so what's the point? It's like not having the benefits of PAYG at all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2009 19:41:39 GMT
Here's the bad news: Travelcard holders will not be able, apparently, to use PAYG top up funds to make extra journeys out of their travelcard zones on NR (as they currently can do on LU, LO and DLR) - unless they first get an "Oyster Extension Permit". In other words, they'll still be in the absurd position of having to queue to get an extension ticket before travelling. This completely obviates the whole point of Oyster PAYG - that you can add extra money (on top a travelcard) and be able to make unexpeted journeys out-of-zone without having to queue to buy another ticket. The whole point of this concept is lost with this ridiculous OEP concept. We're no better off than before. It seems the TOC's are insisting on this and Boris has given in. I think it rather strange that Boris is publicly saying it only affects a minority but is important to stop fare dodging. Well, the argument is nothing short of perverse either way, frankly, given that the DLR and LO somehow manage OK despite the lack of gated stations. And I know loads of people - myself included - who have a travelcard combined with top-up for making unexpected journeys out of zone. We'd also have loved to be able to do this on MR journeys - and had assumed we'd be able when PAYG finally came to NR. Silly old us, eh? We should have realised we were expecting waaayyyyy too much and that some way would be found to muck that idea right up. So, well done to the TOCs - they really have excelled themselves with this little gem of bloody-mindedness, haven't they? TOCs. On course to be as popular as the banks. PS: I'd have started a thread in the "rant" area had this thread not been going already.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2009 0:03:35 GMT
Whilst I like this map, I don't like the title "Oyster Rail Services in London". It shows HS1 and Heathrow Express/Connect, yet has little boxes saying that travelcards and PAYG isn't valid. Surely it is not an 'Oyster Rail Service' then? Isn't it the intention that Oyster will be accepted on HC services into Heathrow in the future where people will have to pay a supplement which can be deducted from a PAYG Oyster?
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 25, 2009 0:10:31 GMT
Isn't it the intention that Oyster will be accepted on HC services into Heathrow in the future where people will have to pay a supplement which can be deducted from a PAYG Oyster? Then take it off the map for now, and put it back on again when it comes true. They're going to have to uncross-out Blackfriars at somepoint anyhow!
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