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313101
Jan 10, 2009 13:01:44 GMT
Post by gomez110 on Jan 10, 2009 13:01:44 GMT
Hi all I was just wondering if there is any truth in what I hear about 313101 going to the york NRM ?
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Deleted
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313101
Jan 11, 2009 12:03:13 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 12:03:13 GMT
It would be a logical candidate, being the first production train of a line of suburban units and the first dual-voltage - maybe just one car though?
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Deleted
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313101
Jan 16, 2009 21:28:37 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2009 21:28:37 GMT
She was / is the 1st dual voltage EMU and the NRM has a call on her !
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Deleted
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313101
Jan 17, 2009 13:03:44 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2009 13:03:44 GMT
Weren't the older units formerly on the Fenchurch St - Tilbury & Southend line originally built with dual-voltage capability, but never had the pickup shoes fitted for some reason?
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metman
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313101
Jan 17, 2009 13:31:09 GMT
Post by metman on Jan 17, 2009 13:31:09 GMT
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Deleted
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313101
Jan 17, 2009 18:17:55 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2009 18:17:55 GMT
Which ones? The class 302s? Not sure. Might have been. Can't remember where I read/heard of them being capable of 3rd rail DC running.
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313101
Jan 17, 2009 19:07:56 GMT
Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 17, 2009 19:07:56 GMT
Wasn't the 'dual-voltage capability' of the 302s (and 308s), as Wiki says, between 6.25Kv and 25Kv overhead operation?
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Deleted
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313101
Jan 17, 2009 19:22:40 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2009 19:22:40 GMT
Which ones? The class 302s? Not sure. Might have been. Can't remember where I read/heard of them being capable of 3rd rail DC running. They weren't - but were 'dual-voltage' - you need to be careful what you mean by this. The 313s were the first British EMUs that were able to run both on 3rd rail 750V dc and overhead 25kV 50Hz electric systems - and so could be described as both dual system and dual voltage. But not the first on a global view: the NYNH&HRR had EMUs with similar dc third rail and ac OH (but 11kV 25Hz) capability pre WW1. All the early BR (25kV) 50 Hz emus (classes 302-309) were dual voltage, to run on both 25kV and 6.25kV, as IIRC were classes 311 & some of class 312. The early BR 50 Hz electrifications in the Glasgow area, and Eastern Region GE & LTS lines used the lower voltage in the more built up (inner) areas, as it required much smaller clearances (and for the GE Liverpool St-Southend Vic., these were the same as the 1500v dc ones, to facilitate conversion): subsequently the 25kV clearance requirements were reduced, and the 6.25kV sections converted to 25kV, removing the requirement for such dual voltage capability.
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Deleted
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313101
Jan 18, 2009 17:48:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2009 17:48:51 GMT
Thanks for clearing up the confusion, Dstock7080 and etr220.
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Deleted
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313101
Jan 21, 2009 0:43:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2009 0:43:35 GMT
Is 313101 out of use already then? I thought the 313s were still in mainline service on LO.
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313101
Jan 21, 2009 5:01:16 GMT
Post by dazz285 on Jan 21, 2009 5:01:16 GMT
No 313101 is still out there chugging along....
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313101
Jan 21, 2009 9:59:40 GMT
Post by gomez110 on Jan 21, 2009 9:59:40 GMT
And I myself was on it yesterday from Watford Junction To Bushey on the 08.00 Departure yesterday , Sorry if my question confused atall I should have put it better really. It would be nice to see all 3 cars of this unit at the NRM or Failing that even 2.
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metman
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313101
Jan 21, 2009 18:49:58 GMT
Post by metman on Jan 21, 2009 18:49:58 GMT
All of them! And in working condition! Just like the class 306 EMU.
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Deleted
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 16:17:07 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 16:17:07 GMT
The 313s were originally built for the WAGN Moorgate Suburban Electrification. When the North London Line was electrified between Stratford and North Woolich in the 80s, some were transferred there.
Can someone clear up some confusion regarding Broad Street, was it electrified or not?
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Deleted
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 16:52:25 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 16:52:25 GMT
Yes it was, look here for evidence
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 16:56:35 GMT
Post by Tubeboy on Feb 2, 2009 16:56:35 GMT
The 313s were originally built for the WAGN Moorgate Suburban Electrification. When the North London Line was electrified between Stratford and North Woolich in the 80s, some were transferred there. Can someone clear up some confusion regarding Broad Street, was it electrified or not? Yes, the normal 3rd rail electrification.
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 16:57:07 GMT
Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 2, 2009 16:57:07 GMT
The 313s were originally built for the WAGN Moorgate Suburban Electrification. When the North London Line was electrified between Stratford and North Woolich in the 80s, some were transferred there. ? The transfer of 313s was later than the electrification - Class 501s were were used when electrification was first completed in 1984, replaced by 416s the following year, and 313s somewhat later. Can someone clear up some confusion regarding Broad Street, was it electrified or not? Yes it was, but only for Watford and Richmond services. GN line services via the Canonbury spur were diesel. The 416s never went to Broad Street, as by the time they arrived only the peak hour Watford sevices (already 313-served) used BSt Oerlikon and later Class 501 units used it.
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Deleted
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 16:57:57 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 16:57:57 GMT
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 17:01:10 GMT
Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 2, 2009 17:01:10 GMT
The camera cannot lie! Clearly at least two 416s DID go to Broad Street! (the twin units in the background are 416s, the triples in the foreground are 501s)
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Oracle
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 17:34:12 GMT
Post by Oracle on Feb 2, 2009 17:34:12 GMT
'Diesels' evidently included Class 31, 21 I think, possibly 23 Baby Deltics and DMUs.
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metman
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 17:36:57 GMT
Post by metman on Feb 2, 2009 17:36:57 GMT
Yes, the EPBs are there! Broad Street used to have 4 rail electrification as most of the NLL network did. The 501s were 4 rail until converted to 3rd rail in the early 1970s.
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Deleted
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 17:38:38 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 17:38:38 GMT
I have also seen a piccy of a 6xxx EPB unit at North Wooly on the same site as linked to above.
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slugabed
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 18:06:41 GMT
Post by slugabed on Feb 2, 2009 18:06:41 GMT
The camera cannot lie! Clearly at least two 416s DID go to Broad Street! (the twin units in the background are 416s, the triples in the foreground are 501s) Something that long puzzled me.....Why did the NLL EMUs have bars on their windows?? Ones on the Southern never had,and I think the EPBs transferred had them fitted (?) We South Londoners had our theories,but what was the REAL reason?
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Deleted
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 19:04:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 19:04:12 GMT
'Diesels' evidently included Class 31, 21 I think, possibly 23 Baby Deltics and DMUs. There is a photo in "Power of the Peaks" of, IIRC, 45006 being named at Broad St.
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Deleted
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 19:04:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2009 19:04:45 GMT
The camera cannot lie! Clearly at least two 416s DID go to Broad Street! (the twin units in the background are 416s, the triples in the foreground are 501s) Something that long puzzled me.....Why did the NLL EMUs have bars on their windows?? Ones on the Southern never had,and I think the EPBs transferred had them fitted (?) We South Londoners had our theories,but what was the REAL reason? Limited clearance in Hampstead tunnel
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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313101
Feb 2, 2009 19:13:27 GMT
Post by slugabed on Feb 2, 2009 19:13:27 GMT
Something that long puzzled me.....Why did the NLL EMUs have bars on their windows?? Ones on the Southern never had,and I think the EPBs transferred had them fitted (?) We South Londoners had our theories,but what was the REAL reason? Limited clearance in Hampstead tunnel Makes sense! At West Norwood W/B,just before the very tight overbridge,planks were fixed at window-height to ease any protruding heads back inside before the brick abutment was reached. Sadly,these have gone.
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PGtrips
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313101
Feb 4, 2009 15:15:10 GMT
Post by PGtrips on Feb 4, 2009 15:15:10 GMT
.....Why did the NLL EMUs have bars on their windows?? Limited clearance in Hampstead tunnel And also over Camden Road bridge, where the clearance was only 2-3 inches each side. Fantastic Broad St pics, ATO, thanks for posting. I used Broad St regularly at this time. The 416s were introduced in late 1984, I believe. The NLL service was diverted to run to N Woolwich in 1985, replacing the Camden Rd - N Woolwich DMU service which was the stronghold of some of the roughest 105s on the network. The third of the three pictures is very interesting as they had already agreed to close Broad St and sell the land to build the Broadgate development, but there were issues with the statutory closure notice about having a direct service from the Watford line to the City. So, as can be seen, they reduced the line from Dalston to a siding and retained the signal box and one starting signal and built a temporary platform just long enough for 3 cars whilst they demolished the rest of the station. This arrangement had to stay until the Graham Road Curve in Hackney was completed, and the Watford - Broad St service could be diverted to Liverpool St. At that point, the dual system/votage capabilities of the 313s got used in service on these lines for the first time. There were not enough spare 313s around for the NLL to go over to 313s at the same time as the Euston - Watford DC, so the 3 car 501s got replaced with 2 car 416s until the early 90's.
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Deleted
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313101
Feb 4, 2009 18:48:58 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 18:48:58 GMT
Sure, no problems... As an aside, I'm presently considering a cycle ride out to North Woolwich to see whats going on.
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