Recreating 'vanished' Underground stock

I started this thread more for interest than serious intent and am aware that in the real world the LU/LT rail system does have the sort of fan-base that has allowed the construction of A1 pacific 'Tornado'.

Electric train preservation has its own problems and, if the stock is to be worked in its proper environment and on 3rd or 4th rail, is only really done successfully world-wide on public systems (I'm thinking Berlin, Paris and New York). Although LT, and to lesser extent LRT, had a creditable history of 'last train' railtours, the idea of keeping old units operational past their normal withdrawal date is a fairly recent concept.

Unfortunately too, for various reasons, the old concept of an all-day, inter-line Underground railtour, complete with 'track-bashing' rare connecting spurs and the optional LT Catering 'lunch box', has often been replaced by one return trip confined to a single line, which is why I no longer book to go on them but prefer to photograph instead.

Realistically the thought of LT/LU keeping one unit of 1959, 1983, 1986 and R Stock operational was never going to happen, both for financial and storage reasons (though I suspect New York would have).

However, the idea of securing the remaining CO/CP and Standard Stock cars for ultimate restoration to compliment the 38TS and Q Stock should, could, be attempted. Of course they represent a relatively narrow era - say 1920s to 1930s as new and then up to the early 1980s - and also the blessed years of all-red cars, which with all respect to what has come after, is generally regarded as London Transport's 'golden age' of design. Such units would also be most in demand for filming and advertising shoots too I suspect than aluminium cars.

No matter, in a few years I imagine the Quainton cars will be rusted away so this will be acamedic, unless we really can build new ones!

In an ideal world we would have the Standard, 1938, Q and CO/CP stock all in running condition and operating 'heritage days' up and down the East London Line! In a more realistic time perhaps they'd be running Northfields - Acton Town/Hammersmith, maybe not all at once but able to be changed-over in Ealing Common as required. I suppose the CO/CP stock are kept alive in the LTM by the Q38 DMs but given the scarcity of preserved rolling stock in any great number it's sad to see the Quainton cars left so exposed.

Last night I saw the program about the group that built the A1, and I'm convinced that it could be done, if I had the money/space. It would probably be easier with tube stock because they're not quite as complicated as steam trains. As for stock, maybe a 6-car train of 1983 stock, as no full units are preserved, (and no South Harrow sidings only fit for scrap does not count as preserved,) either that or an 8-car train of 1962 stock, which could be shortened to 7 if required. That's what I'd like to see, but it's just a dream really.

I think building complete trains is taking it a step to far. There are two 4 car units of 59/62 stock preserved 1304(59) privately & 1506(62) by Craven's, and hopefully both will run again someday. The Q stock may well run in the future, and hopefully someone will take on the 4 CO/CP cars, and the 12 Standards, and get the Dreadnoughts back to run with Sarah.

Building new individual cars does I think sound more realistic, a complete Gate stock DM car on display in the LT Museum instead of just part of one would be nice. Plus this could be termed a rebuild rather than new build if it incorporated the surviving original gate end, and would fill a gap between the C&SLR loco + car, and the Standards.

Similarly a new Q27/K Class DM would be a good experiment for a total new build, and back converting the R38 DM to a Q38 Trailer. These would complement the LT Museums Q Stock train, and would broaden the available formations, i.e. Q23-Q35-Q38-Q27, which to me seems better than: Q38-Q23-Q35-Q38.

Maybe then once all the existing cars have been taken care of, the possibility of new trains could be looked into i.e. two new T Stock trailers, which would enable a 4 car T Stock train to run, and stepping up a level, an eight car train of F stock.

Personally I think a restored train of Standard stock would pull far more prospective riders, then 1983 stock, but that's just my opinion.

SPLAT!!! No, taste is a personal thing of course. I don't see any new trains being built but if one was to be built I would love a Q27 car. The Q stock train mentioned could be run then-Q23-Q35-Q38-Q27. The two Q38 motors could be turned into CP stock to make up a 5 car CO/CP train. The R38 car could become a trailer. Its PCM (and the walthamstows CP cars) could be used to make the Q38 motors CP motors. In turn the electromagnetic gear on them could be used to (re)equip the Q23 and new Q27 cars!

Simple really - well if you got hold of a couple of million quid!

The problem with building a new Q27 DM that is there is only one Q stock trailer (a Q35) preserved and 3 DMs, not including the Q23 at Covent Garden. If the R38 DM was converted to a Q38 trailer, that makes 2 trailers and 3 DMs, so it would make sense to build another trailer, so a 6-car train could run.

In the 'Farewell to the Q Stock Trains' booklet I purchased from the Ian Allan bookshop near Waterloo last year there is a list of remaining Q stock cars as of mid-1972 and it includes Q27 car 4361 listed as 'preserved by the London Underground Society'. Would I be right in thinking that the finances did not allow it.

No, they all were scrapped very quickly in 1963-4. They would have been ok as pilot cars because all their equipment was on the DMs. They were old by 1963 and their equipment was well out of date (even when built!).

Despite their age they were younger when they were retired than the A60/62 stock is now!!!

I've never heard about this, I thought that the F stock wasn't compatible with other types of train.

That's the first I have heard of F stock coupling with any other stock.

Good call. All the gear is there!

Instead of one of the streamlined units just convert one to one of the flat front unit (10009-10011, 11009-11011).

I came across the relevant drawings today. The centre height of the B Stock coupler was 2ft 5+ins [can't write 3/8ths and make it look OK] while the F Stock coupler was 3ft 1in. They could not have used their couplers to couple but they could have used the emergency chains. The train in the picture shows a pair of F Stock trailers between two B Stock middle motor cars. I suspect it was made up to allow photos to be taken and then moved gingerly back into the shed.