Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 11, 2008 23:04:00 GMT
This thread is following on from the recent quiz thread. Kings Cross St Pancras is currently served by 5 different types of stock in regular passenger service - A (Met), C (Circle & H&C), 1967 (Vic), 1973 (Picc) and 1995 (Northern). During the transition from the 1959 stock on the Northern the tally would presumably have been 6 stocks. Has any station been served by more types of stock in regular passenger service than this? How many different types of stock have served Kings Cross in regular passenger service? Has any other station been served by more? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2008 23:24:42 GMT
In the recent past I think there would have been four different stocks on the Northern at one time: 59, 62, 72 MkI and 95. You also had 38, 56, 59 and 72 MkI at the same time - and possibly 62 also, around 1987/8? The poser about the number of stocks to serve a station will probably depend on exactly how you define a stock - e.g. are 38 and 49 counted twice, is Standard Stock counted for each of the variants, Q Stock batches and so on - I think you've started the Christmas Quiz early!  |
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Post by Chris M on Nov 12, 2008 0:06:55 GMT
[It] will probably depend on exactly how you define a stock Good question! I think that for the purposes of this question I shall say that if cars of different batches/varients were commonly marshalled into a single train then they don't count as separate. For example there are 1972 mk 1 cars on the Victoria Line, but I am not counting these separately from the 1967 stocks. If 1972 stocks were used on another line, without being marshalled into 1967 stock formations, then they would be counted for that line (e.g. if they ran on the Picc like they currently run on the Northern). I don't consider refurbed/non-refurbed stocks to be separate, even if they are not commonly (or even capable of being) marshalled together. Does this make sense? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 12, 2008 1:05:55 GMT
Kings Cross during the Met's modernisation and Piccadilly's re-equipment in 1961. Steam dreadnought stock, T stock, P stock, F stock, CO/CP stock, A60 stock, standard stock, 1956ts, 1959ts and 1938ts.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 12, 2008 1:33:31 GMT
Kings Cross during the Met's modernisation and Piccadilly's re-equipment in 1961. Steam dreadnought stock, T stock, P stock, F stock, CO/CP stock, A60 stock, standard stock, 1956ts, 1959ts and 1938ts. I think you've got the trump card, metman. The only other possibility that crossed my mind was using 'Euston' in it's loosest possible sense with the CSLR loco/carriage variations and the Hampstead stock below with the rump end of the Watford Joint above - perhaps you could rephrase the question and ask 'which station was served by the highest numbers of batches of stock at the same time?' |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 12, 2008 11:06:28 GMT
Metman, you would have had R and Q stock on sundays from the district aswell.
What about Bank/Monument in the couple of years that cravens and 62ts worked the central main?
Central: Standard, 1960, 1962
Northern: 1935\38\49, 1956, 1959
W&C (Out on a limb!): 1940-EE stock
SSL: O, Q and R
Might be a couple others in there; dont have exact dates on withdrawl of the H stock or final transfer of the P stock or F.
There were occassional running of the Cravens into Town until the 80s for the North Weald Air Show. If they stopped at Bank then maybe some time during 1970 would be a good start.
EDIT: Just to say that Metman most certainly has it with Kings Cross 1961 either way!
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Post by ribaric on Nov 12, 2008 13:24:54 GMT
I don't recall the Cravens ever running west of Leytonstone. That said, it wasn't something I would have made a note about at the time. There were WTT changes for the air shows but I think these were mostly concerned with 4-car train working.
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Post by johnb on Nov 12, 2008 14:56:13 GMT
Kings Cross during the Met's modernisation and Piccadilly's re-equipment in 1961. Steam dreadnought stock, T stock, P stock, F stock, CO/CP stock, A60 stock, standard stock, 1956ts, 1959ts and 1938ts. Yup, that even beats the impending A, C, 67, 73, 95, 09 and S... |
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Post by 21146 on Nov 12, 2008 15:41:30 GMT
[ (e.g. if they ran on the Picc like they currently run on the Northern).
.
Does this make sense?[/quote]
No. You mean like they currently run on the Bakerloo?
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Post by 21146 on Nov 12, 2008 15:51:36 GMT
Metman, you would have had R and Q stock on sundays from the district aswell. What about Bank/Monument in the couple of years that cravens and 62ts worked the central main? Central: Standard, 1960, 1962 Northern: 1935\38\49, 1956, 1959 W&C (Out on a limb!): 1940-EE stock SSL: O, Q and R Might be a couple others in there; dont have exact dates on withdrawl of the H stock or final transfer of the P stock or F. There were occassional running of the Cravens into Town until the 80s for the North Weald Air Show. If they stopped at Bank then maybe some time during 1970 would be a good start. EDIT: Just to say that Metman most certainly has it with Kings Cross 1961 either way! Surely 1960TS was unable to work in passenger service on the Central Line 'main' after conversion to ATO in 1964, forthwith confined to the Hainault - Woodford branch? When that branch was de-ATO'd in the 1980s (I thinK) they were free to operate elsewhere in unrestricted manual and ended up on the Epping - Onger shuttle, by this time in Train Red, with occasional 'positioning' journies running in service from Loughton or Woodford (did they also run in service from Hainault depot?). No OPO platform equipment was needed as the cabs had 'wing mirrors' fitted. Whether they would have been allowed to work passenger through deep level Tube-sized tunnels in painted-mode at that time (fire regulations etc), and in 'short train' formation, is a moot point, but in any case they didn't. Obviously the preserved 1960TS *has* done regularly but I'm not sure what safety work has been done to the unit since. Either way 1960TS was removed from the 'main' following the delivery of the 1959/62TS in the early-60s. I also recall that one unit (3911?)remained unconverted to ATO and was used for test train work, uniquely retaining its hinged cab doors. The cab end still exists somewhere and can be seen on Flickr. |
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Post by 21146 on Nov 12, 2008 16:05:09 GMT
In the recent past I think there would have been four different stocks on the Northern at one time: 59, 62, 72 MkI and 95. You also had 38, 56, 59 and 72 MkI at the same time - and possibly 62 also, around 1987/8? The poser about the number of stocks to serve a station will probably depend on exactly how you define a stock - e.g. are 38 and 49 counted twice, is Standard Stock counted for each of the variants, Q Stock batches and so on - I think you've started the Christmas Quiz early! By some definitions the District Line had CO/CP/COP/R38/R47/R49/R59/C69/C77/D78 in c1980 |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Nov 12, 2008 16:13:28 GMT
[ (e.g. if they ran on the Picc like they currently run on the Northern). . Does this make sense? No. You mean like they currently run on the Bakerloo?[/quote]  erm, yes, I do mean that. I was originally going to use the Northern Line instead of the Piccadilly Line in the example, obviously I managed to confuse myself in the process |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2008 17:34:06 GMT
Re: "I don't recall the Cravens ever running west of Leytonstone. That said, it wasn't something I would have made a note about at the time. There were WTT changes for the air shows but I think these were mostly concerned with 4-car train working".
The 1960 Tube Stock did work west of Leytonstone for their first few years. The Central Line WTTs of the time showed the stock formations on the 'main line' as '7' or '8' (Pre-1938 Tube). The 1959/62 was shown as 'N8' and the 1960 Tube Stock as 'C8'. Everything became '8' (on the main line) once the Pre-1938s had gone.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 12, 2008 17:57:29 GMT
The 1960 Tube Stock did work west of Leytonstone for their first few years. The Central Line WTTs of the time showed the stock formations on the 'main line' as '7' or '8' (Pre-1938 Tube). The 1959/62 was shown as 'N8' and the 1960 Tube Stock as 'C8'. Everything became '8' (on the main line) once the Pre-1938s had gone. Indeed, for example in WTT 23 (26/3/62) there were 3 x C8; Trains 4 and 12 at Ruislip, Train 72 at Hainault on weekdays. I can dig out the detail if anyone's interested. |
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Post by ribaric on Nov 12, 2008 18:37:40 GMT
I bow to your knowledge gentlemen. I'm also glad to say that 1960 was a bit before my time.
I did work a little on a Craven unit when we were testing an old chopper control system but that got dumped when new thyristor components became available.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2008 19:57:08 GMT
In the recent past I think there would have been four different stocks on the Northern at one time: 59, 62, 72 MkI and 95. You also had 38, 56, 59 and 72 MkI at the same time - and possibly 62 also, around 1987/8? The poser about the number of stocks to serve a station will probably depend on exactly how you define a stock - e.g. are 38 and 49 counted twice, is Standard Stock counted for each of the variants, Q Stock batches and so on - I think you've started the Christmas Quiz early! By some definitions the District Line had CO/CP/COP/R38/R47/R49/R59/C69/C77/D78 in c1980 Which might make Embankment a possible contender for the most stocks - the District stocks plus on the tube lines 38, 56, 59, 62, 72 Mk I and II? |
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 12, 2008 23:41:47 GMT
Embankment could have had R, C69, CO/CP, 38, 56, 59, 72MkI & II in the late 70s!
District R, CO/CP
Circle C69
Northern 38, 56, 59, 72mkI, 72mkII
Bakerloo 38
8 - not bad!
Liverpool St 1939: Central: Tunnel stock, Ealing stock, Standard stock
Met: Ashbury stock, O/P stock, Q38 stock, M stock, V stock, MW stock, W/VT stock, Steam (Dreadnought) stock, Circle (saloon stock).
Ashbury stock: 1898-1900 bogie stock
V stock: Met Rly Saloon stock 1904-6, 13 running on H&C and mainline service
MW stock: what became T stock
VT stock: MW motors with 1904-6 saloon stock trailers
M/Q38 stock both running on the Uxbridge-Barking service
Circle stock:90 cars of ex Met saloon stock of 1905/13/21 vintage
That's a lot!!
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Post by ruislip on Nov 13, 2008 3:17:40 GMT
On the Met/Picc between Uxbridge and Rayners Lane in the early 60s wasn't the following array possible.
A, F, COP, Standard, 1938, 1956, 1959, 1962?
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 13, 2008 17:48:53 GMT
Think, the 1962 stock was on the Central (and Aldwych) then. The Met still had P stock then, unless you count the odd Circle CO/CP staff train to/from Uxbridge!
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