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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 12:01:13 GMT
Earlier a mention is made regarding the shoegear on single-ended DMs. I presume that shoebeams were fitted on the inner ends at a later date as I have seen pics of them as such (there's one on the front cover of Online Videos 'London Underground Remembered, Volume Two'). If so, would this have been at around the time of the stocks final refurbishment in the early fifties? Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 23:02:52 GMT
Regarding dedicated sets for the ELL, it seems that there were, having just unearthed this from my files:
"In reality, the number of F stock trains available exceeded those required for the Metropolitan Line service, and with the District handworked-door C, D and E stock of 1910-13 vintage still at work on the East London Line, spare sets of F Stock were made available for this short branch line. Being required to operate only in four-car formations, a special group of four-car trains had to be created for this service. With a double-equipped and single-equipped DM in each set (the latter type having no guard’s control panels) the guard always had to perform his duties from the former, even if it was at the leading position. Also, special arrangements were necessary for battery charging and ten four-car sets were dedicated for the East London Line service, although only six were required for normal service at New Cross (five in service and one spare). Based at Neasden for maintenance purposes, F stock took over from District C, D and E stock (which had been based at Ealing Common) from 7 December 1953.
However, we still don't know what the car numbers of the dedicated sets were!
Moreover, the figures don't quite compute! With 8xF8 (64 cars) being required for the Met's Uxbridge service, and with only 99 cars available, the difference of 35 doesn't match the 10x4 (40 cars) allegedly required for the ELL. The shortfall also doesn't take into account any maintenance spares for the Met Line.
I may be, of course, that with 8x8F (64 cars) for the Met and 6x4 (24 cars) for the ELL - total 88 cars - the balance of 11 remaining did provide the maintenance spares for both services and, as with A Stock, the nominated ELL sets did venture onto the Met main from time to time?
The plot thickens ......
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 24, 2008 0:39:39 GMT
From Steam to Silver!!
Well, I would presume that some of the 10 speical units Bruce mentioned would be available for the ELL.
Glyn, there were 12 (11 from 1941) 'A' end control trailers that were converted into single equipped motor cars in 1938. These cars originally only had shoebeams at their leading ends and it was not deamed necessary (and to cut down on wiring) to change this practice. The other single equipped motor cars were made from former double equipped and double ended motor cars and kept there shoe beams but had the guard doors replaced by a window although this did not have an opening casement on it, but had a rain strip over it!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 24, 2008 1:47:51 GMT
Don't know if this will help in the fact-finding:
looking at Met No 2 WTT 155 (20/9/54) the stock transfer path ex New+ Sheds was 10.21 am, Ety through Baker St. 10.49½ and into Neasden at 11.15 via the Klondyke.
The Southbound was 2.17pm Ety off Neasden through Baker Street 2.30 and into New+ Sheds 3.2.
No transfers at weekends - interesting the the ELL-bound changed to an afternoon turn when it was a late morning trip off Ealing Common for years pre- F stock.
I suppose what this snippet adds is that the pool at Neasden was fairly static, even with an each way transfer each weekday.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2008 2:16:02 GMT
The pic on the front of the above mentioned DVD has a single equipped DM with no additional rainstrip where a door used to be but shoebeams each end! The plot thickens.... As I have said before, wouldn't be easy just to do a model of a GWR branch lne like everyone else!
By the way, If anyone has a fleet list for LT from the time between the end of the F stock on the MET/District and the end on the ELL wouldn't that give you the cars that remained on the ELL. Or am I being stupidly naive? Also, I dont s'pose anyone has the vehicle numbers from the set that did the farewell tour? Thanks.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Dec 25, 2008 11:28:09 GMT
Don't know if this will help in the fact-finding: looking at Met No 2 WTT 155 (20/9/54) the stock transfer path ex New + Sheds was 10.21 am, Ety through Baker St. 10.49½ and into Neasden at 11.15 via the Klondyke. The Southbound was 2.17pm Ety off Neasden through Baker Street 2.30 and into New + Sheds 3.2. No transfers at weekends - I've gone back and looked through which bits of the Met WTT pile I've got here with me - for the duration of the F stock on the ELL there was very little in the way of change in the timetabled stock transfer paths. Summer/Autumn '54, Summer '58, '59, Winter '60, Autumn '60, Summer/Autumn '61 and Summer '62 (No 2 Section WTTs 151, 155, 172, 178, 182, 185, 189, 193, 197) all followed the same pattern of 10.21 am off NXSheds (10.14 in the case of WTT 151) and either 2.16pm or 2.17pm off Neasden back to the ELL - the return only changed in WTT 197 (18/6/62) where the return transfer started at 2.10pm. All were booked to arrives at NXSheds at 3.2pm. In WTT 178 (15/6/59) and onwards DRICO tests were scheduled to take place BkS - F Rd in both directions. In all cases the ELL - Neasden transfer was timetabled to take the Bakerloo after Finchley ROad. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 25, 2008 12:09:14 GMT
The inside cover of Steam to Silver shows an F stock motor car in Acton Works that was converted from a control trailer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2008 12:33:57 GMT
Regarding dedicated sets for the ELL, it seems that there were, having just unearthed this from my files: "In reality, the number of F stock trains available exceeded those required for the Metropolitan Line service, and with the District handworked-door C, D and E stock of 1910-13 vintage still at work on the East London Line, spare sets of F Stock were made available for this short branch line. Being required to operate only in four-car formations, a special group of four-car trains had to be created for this service. With a double-equipped and single-equipped DM in each set (the latter type having no guard’s control panels) the guard always had to perform his duties from the former, even if it was at the leading position. Also, special arrangements were necessary for battery charging and ten four-car sets were dedicated for the East London Line service, although only six were required for normal service at New Cross (five in service and one spare). Based at Neasden for maintenance purposes, F stock took over from District C, D and E stock (which had been based at Ealing Common) from 7 December 1953. However, we still don't know what the car numbers of the dedicated sets were! Moreover, the figures don't quite compute! With 8xF8 (64 cars) being required for the Met's Uxbridge service, and with only 99 cars available, the difference of 35 doesn't match the 10x4 (40 cars) allegedly required for the ELL. The shortfall also doesn't take into account any maintenance spares for the Met Line. I may be, of course, that with 8x8F (64 cars) for the Met and 6x4 (24 cars) for the ELL - total 88 cars - the balance of 11 remaining did provide the maintenance spares for both services and, as with A Stock, the nominated ELL sets did venture onto the Met main from time to time? The plot thickens ...... I think what is is confusing here is the use of the word 'dedicated' for the ELL sets - in Steam to Silver, J Graeme Bruce uses the expression 'altered to be available for the ELL' - probably a better description of the situation. And to what extent was the F stock kept in semi-permanent sets? If it essentially wasn't, then it would be perhaps be more accurate to say that there were 10 each Single & Double equipped motors with ELL mods, used to form 6 four sets for the ELL, with the balance, and the non-ELL motors, used to form 8 eight sets for the Met - with with 11 spare cars (4 trailer & 7 motor) Was there any restriction on having two Double equipped motors in a four set - either on its own for the ELL, or as a half-eight, for the Met? (And it would appear that the special tour in the Ron Fisher pix was only a four car, although working on the Met) |
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 26, 2008 13:53:50 GMT
Being car stock I think it is fair to assume that only the motor cars were modified, probably 10 of each type. Block units may have been formed in the latter years of the stock. The farewell tour would have been 4 cars so it could fit around the whole network. What were the numbers tho?
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