Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2008 22:48:53 GMT
The District Line has in place plans to run a Training Train on Sundays using a C stock from Barking sidings.
The train only runs when required.
It's purpose is to provide direct experience for new drivers of moves that can be difficult to otherwise provide other than by simulation.
It comes with various options, catering for the engineering works out east most weekends for the rest of the year.
The bit that may be of particular interest to Photographers is working via the Piccadilly "fast" Line.
The bits that may be of interest are (from the engineering works Sundays plan) : -
1058 Barking Sidings - Putney Bridge (via Gloucester Road pl2)
it then performs various shunts at Putney Bridge, Parsons Green, Triangle Sidings and High Street Ken.
1343 High St Ken - Ealing Common (via Barons Ct siding and Pic fast Line)
1454 Ealing Common dt - Ealing Broadway
1506 Ealing Bdy - Barking (via Pic Fast Line)
The train only runs as required and subject to the usual caveats about curtailment, diversion and cancellation, should at least be out on a proving run this Sunday 5th October (Instructor and trainees have been assigned).
There is also an option for certain trips to run additional passenger if required and with two Premier football matches on
Sunday and a reduced service due to the isolation of Upminster Depot, this (5th Oct) seems like a reasonable possibility for that too. Most likely trips being the 1058 (can only run passenger from East Ham), 1454 and 1506.
(On a non engineering shutdown the train can also run out to Hornchurch)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2008 7:40:43 GMT
The District Line has in place plans to run a Training Train on Sundays using a C stock from Barking sidings. The train only runs when required. It's purpose is to provide direct experience for new drivers of moves that can be difficult to otherwise provide other than by simulation. It comes with various options, catering for the engineering works out east most weekends for the rest of the year. The bit that may be of particular interest to Photographers is working via the Piccadilly "fast" Line. The bits that may be of interest are (from the engineering works Sundays plan) : - 1058 Barking Sidings - Putney Bridge (via Gloucester Road pl2) it then performs various shunts at Putney Bridge, Parsons Green, Triangle Sidings and High Street Ken. 1343 High St Ken - Ealing Common (via Barons Ct siding and Pic fast Line) 1454 Ealing Common dt - Ealing Broadway 1506 Ealing Bdy - Barking (via Pic Fast Line) The train only runs as required and subject to the usual caveats about curtailment, diversion and cancellation, should at least be out on a proving run this Sunday 5th October (Instructor and trainees have been assigned). There is also an option for certain trips to run additional passenger if required and with two Premier football matches on Sunday and a reduced service due to the isolation of Upminster Depot, this (5th Oct) seems like a reasonable possibility for that too. Most likely trips being the 1058 (can only run passenger from East Ham), 1454 and 1506. (On a non engineering shutdown the train can also run out to Hornchurch) This * should * happen today. Also a vintage bus running day centred on Amersham for more transport photography ! (if you don't mind getting a bit wet !) |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Oct 5, 2008 16:03:28 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by upfast on Oct 5, 2008 16:11:02 GMT
That's good! Did the train get all the correct signals I wonder   |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Oct 5, 2008 16:29:03 GMT
A) What was the middle unit?
B) Were any trips in service?
C) Did it run as-booked?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2008 17:00:24 GMT
"Wrong stick taken at Baron's Court?" |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Oct 5, 2008 18:02:38 GMT
"Wrong stick taken at Baron's Court?" And at Earl's Court plat.4 WB |
|
|
|
Post by setttt on Oct 5, 2008 20:57:58 GMT
Did the train get all the correct signals I wonder Only two wrong'uns, one courtesy of Acton desk due to a bit of confusion and another of Baker St. Not bad really considering the amount of moves involved! A) What was the middle unit? B) Were any trips in service? C) Did it run as-booked? Middle unit was 5734+6734 1059 Barking - Putney Bridge was passenger from East Ham, as was 1456 Ealing Common - Ealing Broadway and 1506 Ealing Broadway - Barking. It ran as booked with the exception that it left Barking about 25 early then was held to time at Whitechapel. However on the last trip (1506 Ealing - Barking), upon reaching Barking it emerged that an engineers' train had run through some points in Barking Sidings, and with another train already stuck in platform 2 waiting to get into the sidings, there was no choice but to put T117 in the bay road and send it back west! Initially to Parsons Green to stable but it was then decided to run it passenger to Edgware Road via Embankment. This saw the use of 'Gloucester Road' on the blind as far as Tower Hill (as well as suitable DVA programming)!! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2008 21:53:22 GMT
A most interesting train was used too !!
Comprising a C69 a C08 and a C77 !
What are the odds of encountering a C stock up the Ealing end, with that combination of different build year units, also being on the "fast" and running a through "city" service !!!
also the C69 (5523+6523) was one of the 7/7 trains that was rebuilt, consequntly having smooth (rather than grooved) light grey flooring. The C08 6734 is one of the brand new cars having the dark grey smooth flooring!
Superb pictures by the way 21146 !
|
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Oct 5, 2008 21:58:22 GMT
A most interesting train to be used as well. Comprising a C69 a C08 and a C77 ! What are the odds of encountering a C stock up the Ealing end, with that combination of different build year units, also being on the "fast" and running a through "city" service !!! also the C69 was one of the 7/7 trains that was rebuilt, consequntly having smooth light grey flooring. The C08 6734 is one of the brand new cars having the dark grey smooth flooring! Superb pictures by the way 21146 ! I thought the middle unit looked 'cleaner/lighter' which is why I asked for the number! |
|
|
|
Post by astock5000 on Oct 6, 2008 16:24:32 GMT
Also a vintage bus running day centred on Amersham for more transport photography ! (if you don't mind getting a bit wet !) I went to Amersham yesterday. I didn't get that wet, but that was probably because I was on the buses for most of the day. |
|
|
|
Post by astock5000 on Oct 6, 2008 16:26:52 GMT
also the C69 (5523+6523) was one of the 7/7 trains that was rebuilt, consequntly having smooth (rather than grooved) light grey flooring. Do any other C69s have this flooring, apart from 6548 (I don't think 5548 has). |
|
|
|
Post by upfast on Oct 6, 2008 17:09:28 GMT
also the C69 (5523+6523) was one of the 7/7 trains that was rebuilt, consequntly having smooth (rather than grooved) light grey flooring. Do any other C69s have this flooring, apart from 6548 (I don't think 5548 has). The other cars that were involved but did not need to be sent away to be rebuilt also have the same smooth flooring. |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Oct 6, 2008 23:48:10 GMT
With all that rare track covered, or 'bashed', it's a pity you couldn't have sold tickets!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2008 18:39:48 GMT
With all that rare track covered, or 'bashed', it's a pity you couldn't have sold tickets! If only passengers could be carried over the, many, various shunt moves made by this train, it would make quite a Railtour ! However, what did run passenger still makes for noteworthy interest ! Word "around the depots" (as opposed to "on the street" ;D )seems to be that it went well, so hopefully paving the way for it to occur again (it is only "Run as Required"). Fingers crossed |
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Oct 8, 2008 10:08:04 GMT
I do not know whether I should mention it but references on two other Forums suggest that there were photographers out there (not the ones who have posted here) who really should have known better in their locating themselves. I do hope that this does not preclude any further runs on the grounds of H & S.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Oct 8, 2008 15:02:35 GMT
The forum staff here are aware, Oracle, but those other forums are not within our domain of responsibility. That said, if such images were to appear on this forum, a dim view would be taken.
In terms of such behaviour affecting future runs, the same could be said for any unusual working on any railway really - there will always be photographers that wish to push their luck.
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Oct 8, 2008 16:04:36 GMT
The fact that other Forums have have to deal with the issue, or alternatively the poster has had to deal with his posting shows that this is a serious matter firstly, and secondly that members of this Forum are more circumspect.
Not that long ago I saw some photographers at Eastleigh, and one less-intelligent gentleman decided that that he would walk along the platform and go on to the end ramp for his shot. After he returned to his colleagues a member of staff strolled along to him having watched him on CCTV no doubt and put words in his 'shell like ear'. However, at least he did not potentially put a staff member's career on the line.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2008 18:26:49 GMT
I do not know whether I should mention it but references on two other Forums suggest that there were photographers out there (not the ones who have posted here) who really should have known better in their locating themselves. I do hope that this does not preclude any further runs on the grounds of H & S. Frankly no one (LUL, H&S etc) would have given any thought to a few aledged minor transgretions of the rules by some of the public if a few members of certain forums didn't take an inappropriate and ill considered pleasure in making allegations to that effect! If they occured, which the LUL staff present (and two of which are members here) say they did not, it's frankly no concern of those doing the muck raking! As we have commented before far more serious offences (than those aledged) are commited daily. A few people seem far more interested in hijacking what are interesting threads and using them for their own personal vedettas, with no real thought of the consequences of their actions and the disservice they do to everyone. That said the inept failure of the administrators on certain other forums to deal adequately with the matter demonstrates a lack of profesionalism and is why you may expect that any real LUL "gen" will only appear here, where the administrators have set out to ensure a frank and positive but overall fair view of enthusiasts and LUL is presented in discussions which are professesional and mature ...and relevant, I am sure our admins would have deleted these threads had they occured here! Whilst i think it may have been better not to have dragged the nonsence from elsewhere here, I have no intention of repeating it, I would add that Oracle did not add to the childish squabbles elsewhere remaining professional and on topic as one would expect. I'm afraid the other forums allowed an irrelivance to detract from what was frankly an extraordinary working worthy of genuine mature discussion from true enthusiasts and warrented photographic record, aptly provided here by 21146 ! As to the future effect .. the train's operation on that day has been judged by senior LUL management to have been a glorious sucess and a real benefit for the purpose it was intended, driver training. It's purpose was not a jolly for enthusiasts, that was an incidental benefit, so I anticipate it will continue to run as required. The only doubt is if anyone will bother to post information to the enthusiast sector of when it may run again or for that matter what it does and when on a non-engineering shutdown day. If anyone does convey that information I would anticipate it being found only on this forum !  |
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Oct 8, 2008 22:01:38 GMT
I for one am extremely impressed at what has been said. There are members here who will recall going on Underground enthusiasts' tours. My first was about 30 years ago. There was no problem with behaviour alleged or actual then, and thus no concern that there would ever be any calling of a halt to such events. It was well-known at the time that steam locomotives were banned from the SR. I gather, and read the original magazine reports albeit years after the event, that in 1971 when Clan Line was at Basingstoke about to head west, irresponsible persons trespassed on the 3rd rail etc, and management therefore banned all steam specials on the SR in case someone was electrocuted. If this latter point seems OTT, I would just add that when I was involved with railway preservation at the highest levels in the late 1970s we tried to negotiate the running of special trains out of Marylebone, possibly running on LT metals. As a lawyer then, I was asked to consider the myriad of safety and legal objections raised from officers in BR and they included the consequences of people ending up in places where they might be at risk or put others at risk. In the end we got nowhere despite all efforts including some political, but that all changed shortly afterwards in one fell swoop but that's another story. Suffice it to say there have been steam specials out of Marylebone and LT agreed to the running of the Class 20-hauled train over the Met out of Marylebone as well. I would just add that I personally agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence.  |
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Oct 9, 2008 7:21:10 GMT
I wonder what sort of speeds were achieved on the non-stop picc section?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Oct 9, 2008 17:53:26 GMT
*I think* the Picc's line speed through that area is 45 mph, however, the maximum authorised speed for C stocks is 40 mph.
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Oct 9, 2008 18:06:10 GMT
That's what I was thinking. Hopefully the C stock wouldn't hold up the piccs! The C69 used to be able to go quicker though? Don't they have a weak field flag? (great for those old Neasden specials)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2008 22:06:15 GMT
C stocks do have a weak field flag, but it's not used anymore.
And yes, the Picc line speed is 45.
|
|
SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
Posts: 9,737
|
Post by SE13 on Oct 10, 2008 10:24:15 GMT
In theory, should there be no speed restrictions, what sort of pace could the C stock reach on that stretch of line? And while on the subject, what could the 73's reach without a limit?
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Oct 10, 2008 11:45:07 GMT
I should like to know that answer as well! D Stock as I keep boring people with, had a design top wack of 70 mph and this was achieved as we all know NB on the Met on the D Stock tour.
I am not sure when the 45 limit came in but in The Good Old Days, Chiswick Park-Ravenscourt Park on 1938 Stock was a wonder....a Gentlemen's Saloon creaking and groaning and perhaps doing 40 was a wonderful experience? 1959 Stock perhaps could go faster?
However, I am sure that the highest I have known 1973 Stock to go is about 50? Perhaps they could in theory get to 60?
I have a photo in UndergrounD somewhere of 1959 Stock at Amersham on brake tests..did 1973 Stock ever get there and thus a chance to get to top speed when it was 70 line speed?
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Oct 10, 2008 11:54:34 GMT
I have just checked: UndergrounD #5 with Sarah at Acton Toon 19/7/72 (on the shunting neck into the Works) on the cover. The date was September 1978 and the 7-car 1959 Stock tests were conducted between Amersham & Ricky.
As an aside a 7-car 1938 Stock train was used for braking tests during 1977 and 1978 and was seen at Watford Met.
The [first?] C69 Stock gauging run was on 23/10/77 and was photographed at Turnham Green Local (UD # 7).
|
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Oct 10, 2008 12:55:28 GMT
Is LU the only UK railway where train speeds have got lower, not faster?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Oct 10, 2008 14:15:13 GMT
Condition of the track, along with dodgy bogie's, is the main reason for the drop in line speeds - otherwise known as a complete lack of investment throughout the 80's & 90's.
Hopefully now that significant sections of track are going over to flat bottom rail on concrete sleepers, and new trains are being built, things will change for the better.......
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Oct 11, 2008 0:14:47 GMT
The 73s were certainly built to do 50 on the Heathrow section. One must remember that the District 1903 A stock got to 60mph on the Sth Harrow-Mill Hill Park (later Acton Town) branch!!
|
|
