FF60

You are well within your rights to have a whinge about that one! I must admit I've been held there quite a bit recently and never thought about it!

Agreed Colin and knowing Barking cabin from my Box Boy days then of course the signalman should know what trains are approaching, of course we all know that this doesn't happen and frequent wrong routes are given because of this lack of or incorrect information from Whitechapel, so hence having to get on the phone to the signalman after waiting the appropriate time.
This is also the same scenario at the outer homes at Earls Court westbound seeing an empty platform 3 & 4 and then clearing the lot into the platform but of course we are now talking a different language, that language being the Program Machine.

Viewable?

now regarding earls court its usually when the signalman is not paying attention to the programme machines and then he puts the machine in FCFS (first come first serve) then the machine will route trains

well if you do go into the bay road with a barking t/d the signalman gets a bell warning when the train gets to FF60 so theres no excuse there that he has forgotten you but if you have straight route t/d then god knows why they hold you there as most of the time the site is worked in king (auto working)

A couple of years ago we never used to get this problem at all, it was round the corner and held at 59's until the train in front left, but now its most of the time

Of course he doesn't need to take a release if the signal has never cleared for the previously selected route.

If however FF59 has cleared and the signal operator subsequently changes his mind, if the signal has cleared a release must be taken on FF59 rte 1.

The early backlock release of FF60 requires Delta 929E up for 15 secs with LB track clear i.e. if FF59 has been called for, not cleared and the signalman subsequently changes his mind.

The 4.5 sec figure relates to the clearing of FF59 (2) for all routes, and is normally absorbed in the time it takes for an early backlock release to take effect.

Thank you Tom that clarifies why we get held when we're following another train. eventually you know they will shut this railway down with all the compromised overlap stuff, especially when they start modifying the station starter overlaps

That all shows you that this damn one block per wheel and rheo braking is nowhere near as good as the old 'clasp' type we had. So much for improvements and efficiency. Bean counters should learn that the more you chase money the further away it get's

EDIT: With reference to Tom's comment about speed limits some of the old stock was as fast or faster than the 'D' stock and most certainly heavier. That was definitely taken into account when those signals were installed in the late fifties. The overlaps therefore should be more than adequate for a train at speed.

If that is the case it is proof positive that the brakes on the newer stock are not up to the job.

Q8, that is what I would expect from someone stuck in the past with the opinion that anything new is bad.

When the site was designed a different overlap formula was in use (the 1959 formula) which will result in a different calculated overlap from one worked out using the current formula.

Anyway, regardless of the different characteristics of the stock, there is a speed limit which should be observed. If the train operator exceeds this limit, it is more than possible that should a SPAD occur, the train when tripped is travelling at a rate faster than the overlap is good for. If the train operator is not responsible enough to obey the line speed then compromised overlaps can occur with the attendant risk of collision. This gives the signal engineers no choice but to assure the safety of trains by forcing drivers to slow down through timing sections.

All the more need for ATO and continuous ATP then

Keep it friendly gents

Timing sections work on a two shot principle - the train gets two attempts to clear the signal. IIRC there is a position detector on 929a track and the first shot runs from there to the 929a/b blockjoint.

If there is a train in the platform ahead, a second train will be forced to pass FF60 under speed control.

If the train travels over the first shot timing too fast for the timing section, there is a second shot over 929a track up and 929b track down, once the timer is proved to have zeroed. This requires a train to draw up to within 7m of FF60 in order to be off 929a track and the second shot to run.

The reason the all the homes clear together is because in the time taken to bring the train to a halt and wait at 60's the first train has now started to leave the platform. So as the second train approaches FF59 the first train will have moved far enough away to enable it to clear and if the first train continues to accelerate towards Upney then 58a/58b will also be clear.

What I'm not 100% on is why there isn't an illuminated speed restriction sign. My guess (and if my DVD player was working I could confirm it) is that the area may well have been included in the recent project to provide additional PSR signs.

I think it depends on when it happens. If it's midday with not much around and you sit there having drawn up to within 7m for longer than 10 seconds or so then I could well believe the signalman theory, as there is a single push button for 60.59(1).58. But if you're following a Barking Sidings reverser, it could be that the train is taking a while to detrain, another area where procedures and the time taken have changed in the last few years.

There is some debate as to the merits of telling staff about timing sections etc; on the one hand it stops T/Ops complaining about signal operators but on the other hand you can know too much - there is a speed controlled signal between Barons Court and Earl's Court EB Picc that everyone knows about and gets SPADed because the train ops know it's speed controlled and are anticipating it clearing, when in fact it's at danger for another reason.
However, you do of course have somewhere to read about it - section 1 of the traffic circular. And as this is a mod which affects how the signal behaves in respect to the drivers there would have been a T/C entry (as other mods which were part of the same project have had).

EDIT: And I've done some working out of the timing sections and speed issues: The full speed overlap on FF59 is good for 55mph, the speed controlled one (i.e. after a speed check at FF60) is 45mph and the average speed through the FF60 timing section so as to pass the first shot should be 35mph. But note that this is the average speed: passing through at 35mph is not the correct approach, the train should be braking to stop at FF60.