metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Sept 25, 2008 7:39:35 GMT
I believe so- not in 6036 of course!
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PGtrips
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Post by PGtrips on Sept 26, 2008 14:18:56 GMT
Does it require a separate operative to work the Sandite equipment, or can this be done by the driver?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2008 22:05:06 GMT
Sandite equipment is operated by a switch on the drivers console, the fitter is onboard to help if there is a failure and we are not to leave Neasden depot with a fitter onboard. Im on the RAT all over xmas so I hope there are no flats caused by any "newbie" drivers which has happened in the past. ;-)
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Post by neasdena60 on Sept 27, 2008 11:45:06 GMT
Sandite equipment is operated by a switch on the drivers console, the fitter is onboard to help if there is a failure and we are not to leave Neasden depot with a fitter onboard. Im on the RAT all over xmas so I hope there are no flats caused by any "newbie" drivers which has happened in the past. ;-) is only a matter of time, but with so much new rail head laid the last year or so, lets hope its a good season.
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PGtrips
Ahh... don't you just love PG?
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Post by PGtrips on Sept 27, 2008 12:54:47 GMT
Sandite equipment is operated by a switch on the drivers console, the fitter is on-board to help if there is a failure and we are not to leave Neasden depot with a fitter on-board. I'm on the RAT all over Xmas so I hope there are no flats caused by any "newbie" drivers which has happened in the past. ;-) So does this additional wiring have to be fitted each time a service unit is adapted to work with the RAT, or do all the fleet have it fitted, or does it use the de-icer control circuit? Is the knack of driving the RAT different to a standard A stock? Does anyone know what the diagrams are for the RAT and how far south does it get?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2008 16:50:47 GMT
the furthest south the RAT gets is Neasden Depot
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2008 17:32:38 GMT
Is the knack of driving the RAT different to a standard A stock? Yes, 3 cars of brakes on a 4 car set and the car with no brakes has a tonne of sandite in it so it can get fruity, so best to take it easy.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Sept 28, 2008 13:49:13 GMT
Which probably why the fifth car was removed! Does 6036 still have its compressor?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 28, 2008 22:35:53 GMT
Surely it would have to, otherwise the unit would only have one? How come the brakes were removed from it? Also, has it ever done stanmore?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2008 19:11:38 GMT
I think the sandite equipment uses the brake gear, thats why no brakes. Not sure about compressor, I will have to findout. Stanmore? not sure.
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Post by 21146 on Sept 30, 2008 22:50:39 GMT
Any timetable details for RAT runs please?
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Post by 21146 on Oct 5, 2008 19:46:55 GMT
Anyone know the times this operates?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2008 9:44:29 GMT
Daily until 20th December, except during weekend engineering work: Mondays to Fridays Watford (2) 04.00 Chesham 04.24 - 04.28 Chalfont 04.37 - 04.42 Amersham 04.46 - 04.51 Watford 05.13 - 05.18 Rickmansworth 05.25 - 05.30 Harrow 05.43 - 05.48 Uxbridge 06.06 - 06.13 Neasden Depot 06.45 - 07.12 Amersham 07.56 - 08.19 via north sidings Rickmansworth South Sidings 08.38 - 08.53 Amersham 09.12 - 09.29 via north sidings Northwood 09.50 - 10.18 via siding Amersham 10.42 - 10.58 via north sidings Harrow 11.28 - 11.40 Uxbridge 12.02 - 12.07 Neasden Depot 12.40 - 14.42 Amersham 15.21 - 15.27 Harrow 15.59 - 16.13 Amersham 16.39 - 16.47 via north sidings Rickmansworth South Sidings 17.08 - 19.51 Amersham 20.12 - 20.38 via north sidings Neasden Depot 21.20 - 00.23 Watford (2) 00.56
Saturdays
As Mondays to Fridays until Rickmansworth depart 05.30 then Neasden Depot 06.00.
Neasden Depot 14.31 Amersham 15.10 - 15.19 Watford 24 road 15.42 - 15.59 Amersham 16.22 - 16.28 Harrow 16.58 - 17.10 Uxbridge Sidings 17.31 - 17.45 * - until 8/11 due to platform works at Uxbridge Neasden Depot 18.20*
* - From 15/11 , Uxbridge station 17.29 - 17.35, Neasden Depot 18.10
Sundays
Neasden Depot 05.08 Chesham 05.52 - 05.57 Chalfont 06.06 - 06.11 Amersham 06.15 - 06.20 Watford 06.43 - 06.51 Rickmansworth 06.58 - 07.10 Neasden Depot 07.39 - 16.27 Amersham 17.12 - 17.27 via north sidings Watford 24 siding 17.50 - 17.58 Rickmansworth 18.05 - 18.10 Harrow 18.28 - 18.40 Uxbridge Sidings 19.05 - 19.13* - until 9/11 Due to platform works at Uxbridge station. Neasden Depot 19.50 - 23.35 From 16/11 Uxbridge station 19.02 - 19.07, Neasden Depot 19.40 - 23.35 Watford 00.11 (2)
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Post by trc666 on Oct 6, 2008 13:44:55 GMT
I assume this is subject to the usual caveats (run early/not at all etc)?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2008 14:40:36 GMT
I assume this is subject to the usual caveats (run early/not at all etc)? Probably
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Post by neasdena60 on Oct 27, 2008 20:17:11 GMT
Bad flats on some on the motor wheels, but metronet were told not to stop the unit over the weekend for wheel turning. It was due to be done after the weekly exam on sat, they even got extra staff in, but the plans changed after a call from london underground.
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Post by 21146 on Oct 27, 2008 21:36:10 GMT
Has anyone got times for Chiltern's rail head treatment train?
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Post by wellgroomed on Nov 2, 2008 0:00:37 GMT
Has anyone got times for Chiltern's rail head treatment train? 04:30 Aylesbury-Neasden via Wycombe 05:55 Neasden-Aylesbury via Amersham 09:35 Aylesbury-W Ruislip via Wycombe 11:13 W Ruislip-Aylesbury via Wycombe 13:40 Aylesbury-Marylebone via Amersham 15:04 Marylebone-Aylesbury via Amersham 21:10 Aylesbury-Marylebone via Amersham 22:43 Marylebone-Aylesbury via Wycombe & Bicester
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Post by 21146 on Nov 2, 2008 13:16:58 GMT
Has anyone got times for Chiltern's rail head treatment train? 04:30 Aylesbury-Neasden via Wycombe 05:55 Neasden-Aylesbury via Amersham 09:35 Aylesbury-W Ruislip via Wycombe 11:13 W Ruislip-Aylesbury via Wycombe 13:40 Aylesbury-Marylebone via Amersham 15:04 Marylebone-Aylesbury via Amersham 21:10 Aylesbury-Marylebone via Amersham 22:43 Marylebone-Aylesbury via Wycombe & Bicester Are these daily or weekday etc?
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Post by wellgroomed on Nov 2, 2008 14:29:31 GMT
Are these daily or weekday etc? Sorry, should've said that they're Monday-Friday. Weekends are variable depending on the different engineering work possessions that take place.
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Post by suncloud on Nov 2, 2008 15:12:08 GMT
Saw it at Moor Park the other day, was a little bit of a surprise! Must have been on the 13.40 run...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2008 17:56:38 GMT
Now I'm not the most radical thinker in the world, I'm simply a Grunt who drives a Metropolitan line Underground train. Generally speaking, the most important things I have to worry about in any given day are 'green for go, red for stop' and what to have for lunch. Yellow takes a bit more thinking about but generally one can work out what it means without too much ache of the brain. However, maybe somebody out there in DistrictDaveLand can put me straight on the following because for the life of me I cannot work out how this makes any kind of sense and I don't wish to overload the old grey cells. After all, I've got lunch to think about.
The annual Leaf Fall Season (I think it's called 'Autumn' in the real world) is a big deal for London Underground. Special timetables are produced enabling Drivers to cut maximum speeds between Amersham / Chesham and Moor Park by some 20% so as not to slide straight past Chorleywood on a gungy layer of leaf slime and mulchy brown detritus. Information posters are displayed in Mess Rooms, Booking-On points and just about anywhere else a Driver is likely to go in the course of a day and a special little gatefold memocard is distributed to remind us all about defensive driving, early braking and what to do when it all goes Pete Tong.
In addition, the R.A.T. trundles up and down the line laying an abrasive surface of Sandite to the railhead which serves to increase the chances of us actually stopping the train in the right place whilst also helping to reduce wheel slip when subsequently attempting to depart. Over and above the actual cost of the Sandite itself, this operation takes up several driving Duties throughout the day and involves the attendance of a Metronet technician to turn the pumps on and off across the points etc. In short, it can't be a cheap and nasty answer to the annual problem of Autumn upsetting the smooth running of the Metropolitan line and would surely be one London Undergound would dispense with if they could.
Why then, and this is what really baffles me in between bacon sandwiches, does London Underground then allow Chiltern Railways to run a hissing, steaming clanking diesel-driven 'Heath Robinson' high-pressure water squirter along the same sections of track, quite effectively washing away all traces of Sandite and adding an artificial layer of slipperyness to otherwise dry track conditions? To follow on behind this particular solution to 'Leaves On The Line' during it's passage south from Amersham is interesting, to say the least.
I'm sure I must be missing the big picture here because London Underground wouldn't just toss money away in this manner ............ would they?
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Post by upfast on Nov 9, 2008 18:07:00 GMT
I was under the impression that the water jetter train was only authorised to spray by the SC/SM? In case the RAT had gone before it.
The following train should then be advised that they are following the jetter, because as you say the increased risk of slipping.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 9, 2008 18:13:36 GMT
From what little I understand of the process I think that there is a finite limit to how many layers of sandite you can have on the railhead. Too much and you're back to square one (bit like the anti-foaming that the Snowdon used to use in it's boilers - too much and you'd end up with an irreversible water carry over as the engine was pounding up Snowdon).
I *think* that you need both attacks - the RAT and the Chiltern in order to prevent the sandite turning into gritty leaf-mulch that is just as good at letting Motormen skid through Chorleywood as the leaf mulch itself. ;D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2008 18:16:55 GMT
I see. It's just that I was delayed in passenger service by some six minutes in order to let the water jetter through and then it was like Bambi On Ice following behind it. Doesn't seem to be the best solution to combating slippery railhead conditions.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 9, 2008 18:18:40 GMT
True, for your train - however you will have dried the railhead nicely for any moves after you.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Nov 9, 2008 18:22:54 GMT
And I've noticed that when on the fast lines-the RAT seems to be follow by a 165, so Chiltern get a greater benefit!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2008 18:34:46 GMT
I *think* that you need both attacks - the RAT and the Chiltern in order to prevent the sandite turning into gritty leaf-mulch that is just as good at letting Motormen skid through Chorleywood as the leaf mulch itself
Not that I go around examining the track but I can't say I've noticed several layers of Sandite building up on the railhead. It gets kinda dispersed by the passage of the trains otherwise there wouldn't be the need for several passes of the R.A.T. each day. Then, along come the tenants who simply add a slippery glaze to the railhead. It's not even that the water jet flushes out the points because, in theory, the Sandite is not applied across junctions.
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Post by programmes1 on Nov 9, 2008 19:00:57 GMT
I *think* that you need both attacks - the RAT and the Chiltern in order to prevent the sandite turning into gritty leaf-mulch that is just as good at letting Motormen skid through Chorleywood as the leaf mulch itselfNot that I go around examining the track but I can't say I've noticed several layers of Sandite building up on the railhead. It gets kinda dispersed by the passage of the trains otherwise there wouldn't be the need for several passes of the R.A.T. each day. Then, along come the tenants who simply add a slippery glaze to the railhead. It's not even that the water jet flushes out the points because, in theory, the Sandite is not applied across junctions. If the sandite was applied at junctions then you would get signal failures, if you know Big Bill ex Neasden he will tell you all about it.
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Post by wellgroomed on Nov 9, 2008 20:59:56 GMT
Why then, and this is what really baffles me in between bacon sandwiches, does London Underground then allow Chiltern Railways to run a hissing, steaming clanking diesel-driven 'Heath Robinson' high-pressure water squirter along the same sections of track, quite effectively washing away all traces of Sandite and adding an artificial layer of slipperyness to otherwise dry track conditions? It's sometimes a swings and roundabouts situation. Sometimes diesel trains delay Met trains. Sometimes Met trains delay diesel trains. I can understand your frustration at being delayed behind the water-jet, but there appears to be an assumption here that 'London Underground *allows* Chiltern Railways to run [the water-jet]'. Could it be at all possible that London Underground have *asked* Chiltern Railways to run the water-jet? However, as already summarised - Sandite can only do so much. As a substance, it's applied to the railhead and then the wheels of the trains over the sandite apply the pressure to break down the leaf mulch. That said, if you get too much leaf mulch - you could be adding fuel to the fire by laying sandite on top of it and compressing the mulch onto the railhead even further. What the water-jet does is a separate issue from the sandite. It effectively cleans the railhead of all contamination - something that sandite can't manage on it's own. True, of course - the railhead is wet after the passage of it. It is, after all, spraying water. But as the defensive driving policy is being adhered to - the risk of sliding through stations is being taken into consideration for driving technique appropriate to the given situation. The appropriate Service Manager will ask for the water-jet not to spray, during freezing conditions, if required.
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