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Post by trc666 on Sept 14, 2008 1:40:22 GMT
Yesterday on my way to work, I noticed a set of points being constructed on the GOBLIN approach to Barking seemingly aimed towards platform 2, is there a plan to connect NR to the District here?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2008 4:49:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2008 2:57:00 GMT
The link is already shown on Trackernet and the engineering work to install it has not yet finished.
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Post by alycidon on Sept 23, 2008 8:44:23 GMT
I saw it too & took this picture  A few years back I was told by a driver that there was going to be a connection installed at Upminster between the District line & the NR Romford line, this was to enable D78's to be towed away for referb. Did this ever happen? as I thought that all transfers were done by road.  i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll212/leylandtl12/Image095.jpgEDIT: Image changed to a link by Colin - unfortunately it is too large and broke rule 7 |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2008 9:26:23 GMT
I was going to say it looked finished when I went through on saturday.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2008 9:33:17 GMT
A few years back I was told by a driver that there was going to be a connection installed at Upminster between the District line & the NR Romford line, this was to enable D78's to be towed away for referb. Did this ever happen? It got half built and then abandoned when it was realised that: 1. There's a bloody great pole for the OLE in the way. 2. The Romford line has no signals (single train locked in) so there were problems with effectively making Upminster depot part of the single line. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 23, 2008 13:29:41 GMT
Slight correction adw - the 'Romford line' has axle counters! Also, the whole of Upminster depot would have to be under possession, as well as the 'Romford line' all the way to Romford; and there are no facilities in Upminster depot to allow Locomotives to 'run round' their trains. All in all, it was more aggro that it was worth. Still, thanks to the image above of Barking, I won't get a nasty surprise at work later seeing as I've been off on annual leave for the past two weeks   ;D |
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Post by DrOne on Sept 23, 2008 15:12:05 GMT
Question to those in the know. I understand the Romford-Upminster was originally built as Romford - Grays (which would have been a useful branch of the Shenfield line had it been built to fly over the LTS line at Upminster). When was the connection removed?
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Sept 23, 2008 16:07:07 GMT
I query why the link was built knowing, becuse it is patently obvious, that there was a gantry support in the way! It was also obvious that the Romford line was as it is, 'one engine in steam', although am I right in suggesting that there was a service gap because there was a path for another train, that never ran in the end? Reminds me of an estate in Southall built in the 1960s. Builder wanted to erect a house but there was a tree in the way, with a preservation order on it. Answer: build a square house around said tree! That then became colloquially known as 'The Tree House'! Said tree then died because it was not too happy about being in the middel square of a house.   Thanks also from me for that photo! |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 23, 2008 16:54:22 GMT
The engineers trains that will use the Barking Link will have locomotives at each end of the train, no need to run round.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2008 17:01:27 GMT
The engineers trains that will use the Barking Link will have locomotives at each end of the train, no need to run round. Presumably already in use too, noted a Class 66 First GB Railfreight loco in Metronet livery in Hornchurch e/b on Sunday. Can't see how else it got there, unless it came through zone 1 !! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2008 20:46:39 GMT
Question to those in the know. I understand the Romford-Upminster was originally built as Romford - Grays (which would have been a useful branch of the Shenfield line had it been built to fly over the LTS line at Upminster). When was the connection removed? As I remember it from the early 40's there was a line crossing right across the district lines from the Romford - Upminster line (known locally as the push-and-pull) to the Southend bound line of the then LMS. Don't forget it pre-dates the District line by many years. The line had its own seperate station at Romford (on the opposite side of the road) and was built and owned by the LTS to take passengers from Romford. Originally through trains were run between Romford and Grays. The connection was removed when the main line was electrified. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2008 20:00:38 GMT
I have at times thought that instead of elecrifying Romford to Upminster at 25 kV AC it could have been converted to fourth rail and run as a branch of the District line.
More realistically though it did seem a waste even electrifying the line, for the use it gets there was nothing wrong with a DMU.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2008 21:33:48 GMT
 I seem to think we have been here before! Some years ago we were going the other way with LUL doing everything they could to segregate the network from the outside railway. The only links retained were the three LUL passenger services to Wimbledon/Richmond and Harrow & Wealdstone and the two ballast links at West Ruislip and Kensington Olympia, though thanks to the BR resignalling of the West London made a mess of that. But of course we also had that rare use of a BR passenger service over the Met Line between Harrow & Mantles Wood. Maybe the modern management could learn a lesson of history we then had numerous links to the outside world railway and no morbid fear of real trains!
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Post by 21146 on Sept 24, 2008 21:53:37 GMT
Is this first new LU/NR - LT/BR link since a temporary connection was established between the two at Northumberland Park depot in the late-1960s?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 25, 2008 1:19:57 GMT
I have at times thought that instead of elecrifying Romford to Upminster at 25 kV AC it could have been converted to fourth rail and run as a branch of the District line. It has been suggested in the past - the extra platform at Upminster would be useful - but I can't see it being of much benefit to LU. More realistically though it did seem a waste even electrifying the line, for the use it gets there was nothing wrong with a DMU. Yes, but then you need to have a spare DMU doing nothing just in case the one being used breaks.......then you need to train all the drivers on an extra stock, including annual refreshers, etc. I suspect that overall, the current set up is best. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 25, 2008 7:22:04 GMT
At one time or another it seems theres been speculation of the District taking every which way from Upminster. It seems that transport planners aren't quite comfortable with the district not going further. Wasn't there also something a long while ago about building another station the other end of the depot?
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Post by Oracle on Sept 25, 2008 7:53:31 GMT
I am wracking my brain! These are the ones that I can remember that were there:
OLYMPIA BRANCH-WLL
EALING BDY CENTRAL-WR MAIN LINE (SLOW LINES)
PADDINGTON SUBURBAN
NEW CROSS
NEW CROSS GATE
SHOREDITCH
BROMLEY BY BOW
BARKING?
UPMINSTER?
RICHMOND- WINDSOR LINES
WIMBLEDON NORTH JUNCTION (I think it's called, still there...and used by SWT)
WEST RUISLIP
PARK JUNCTION
DRAYTON PARK
LOUGHTON-LOUGHTON LT JUNCTION
NEWBURY PARK
QUEENS PARK
WATFORD JUNCTION DC-MAIN (still there)
HARROW ON THE HILL
MANTLES WOOD JUNCTION
NORTHUMBERLAND PARK
GUNNERSBURY JUNCTION (AND NORTH CURVE FROM BOLLO LANE DIRECTION)
TURNHAM GREEN (under WB flyover)
HAMMERSMITH
FARRINGDON CWL-INNER CIRCLE
WILLESDEN JUNCTION LOW LEVEL- NLL loop
WILLESDEN JUNCTION LL - WILLESDEN DEPOT
That's all I can recall now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 8:45:51 GMT
Just a couple more LT-BR connections I can think of - related to Wimbledon North, the connection from East Putney to <?> Point Pleasant Junction</?> on the South Western lines. Not sure that it has ever been used by anything other than LSWR/SR/BR/National Rail stock though. Also, pre-war, the Latimer Road (H&C) to West London Line curve.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Sept 25, 2008 10:19:29 GMT
East Putney Junction-Point Pleasant Junction, of course! Now the Putney Reversible I think it's called but Tom will know! Has been used for all manner of BR stock in the past.
Also PUTNEY BRIDGE! The junction used to be on the bridge, and as is well-known was used by the BR TRT.
I suppose we could suggest that Queens Park has two connections: both north of the North Depot: one to and from the NB and SB Bakerloo and one to/from the Up/Down to Kilburn High Road. Sorry for stretching a point!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 17:06:18 GMT
the points at barking are to be hand cranked over when needed there is no electrical connection to move the points there is only the indication circuit hooked up but i believe they are to be clipped and scotched until they are needed
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 25, 2008 18:31:36 GMT
The Crossover points have Motors on each end, must be a plan to have them wired up and controlled from some line side control box in the future.
Any one know what type the point motors are ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2008 23:27:03 GMT
The Crossover points have Motors on each end, must be a plan to have them wired up and controlled from some line side control box in the future. There is indeed a plan to install a ground frame. |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 26, 2008 14:30:58 GMT
Phase 2 of the works are due to incorporate completion of signalling modifications required to allow signalled moves from Network Rail to the District Line, with control of the NR points via the Upminster IECC.
Control of the LUL points via a Ground Control Panel.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 26, 2008 21:42:41 GMT
Westinghouse Style M63 on the LU end, Alstom HW2000 on the NR end, I believe.
I wonder which end will fail first?
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 26, 2008 21:48:25 GMT
Westinghouse Style M63 on the LU end, Alstom HW2000 on the NR end, I believe. I wonder which end will fail first? Can these points be hand cranked ? |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 26, 2008 21:57:53 GMT
They can both be hand cranked.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2008 17:32:42 GMT
Westinghouse Style M63 on the LU end, Alstom HW2000 on the NR end, I believe. I wonder which end will fail first? i say the M63 |
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Post by PGtrips on Sept 30, 2008 13:29:41 GMT
Phase 2 of the works are due to incorporate completion of signalling modifications required to allow signalled moves from Network Rail to the District Line, with control of the NR points via the Upminster IECC. Control of the LUL points via a Ground Control Panel. So how will this work in practice? I thought that quite a fundamental requirement for a crossover is that both ends are either normal or reversed? Surely having each end controlled from a different signal installation might be dangerous because unless both points are moved simultaneously, you lose flank protection on both straight routes? Can someone please explain how this is going to work in practice? |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Sept 30, 2008 16:32:34 GMT
Additional signalling changes were included in phase 1 to include flanking protection through the detection of the points in both LU and NR signalling systems to reduce the risk of collision.
The reason for the split is that Metronet will own and maintain the track up to a Insulated Block Joint pair approximately half way along the Crossover and Network Rail will own and maintain the track on the the other side of the IBJ boundary.
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A few years back I was told by a driver that there was going to be a connection installed at Upminster between the District line & the NR Romford line, this was to enable D78's to be towed away for referb. Did this ever happen? as I thought that all transfers were done by road. 
I seem to think we have been here before! Some years ago we were going the other way with LUL doing everything they could to segregate the network from the outside railway. The only links retained were the three LUL passenger services to Wimbledon/Richmond and Harrow & Wealdstone and the two ballast links at West Ruislip and Kensington Olympia, though thanks to the BR resignalling of the West London made a mess of that. But of course we also had that rare use of a BR passenger service over the Met Line between Harrow & Mantles Wood. Maybe the modern management could learn a lesson of history we then had numerous links to the outside 
