South Harrow

Yes, it is most certainly possible - and it does happen, though not as frequently as 'we' seem to stray of our terriotory.

I couldn't guess at the frequency though. No idea why - though I was once in the cab of a Picc train travelling home and the driver was offered the wrong route. It was only as I (generously) pointed it out that he didn't accept it.

Tubeprune once told me a story on this theme though, and I'll try to remember it as best I can. It went something like......

'A Picc had accepted a wrong 'un at HLJ and ended up at EBDY. The passengers (unimpressed) boarded the next eastbound District and returned to Ealing Common, where they crossed over to the westbound platform for the next Rayners Lane service.

They duly boarded the next train which promptly repeated the same error. So it ended up with two trains-worth of Picc passengers at Ealing Broadway'

How often do district drivers exept the wrong 'un?

Again I've no accurate figure, but I'd guess 4/5 times a year.

But it seems to occur in spates - the same thing as I'd done (i.e. in the morning, straight from depot, signal system 'thought' the train was a Picc etc) happened only a couple of weeks after I did it, but it was then several months until I heard of a wrong route being accepted (of course, it may well be that others had had the route offered to them, but hadn't accepted it).

I *think* the 'experiences' of two of us on this site having done the same thing in fairly short order make it a good opportunity to have a dig at the individuals concerned and too that if it were that frequent, it wouldn't have become so embedded in the 'folklore' of this forum!

I think there was something similar to this before the district line board got wiped.

I agree entirely with that. We see several hundred greens a day and dont even think about them, if you see one wrong signal with harbour lights when you wouldnt normally, you notice.

Harsig. There has always been a problem with TD's westbound in the Ealing Common area. Most of the time it seems to happen with trains that have just left Ealing Common depot as in Dave's case. But occasionally it happens with one from Acton Town too. I don't know if the shunter in Ealing depot has a facility for setting up descriptions but if he has it may be down to human error.

It doesn't particularly matter what the source of the problem is. The point I was trying to make is that if the problem mostly only affects TDs for trains meant to go to Ealing then it is these trains which are far more likely to be given a wrong signal and all other things being equal there will be a correspondingly larger number of these train accepting the wrong signal when compared with the number of Piccadilly trains accepting the wrong signal.

I believe that is on the cards....

I have just noticed what I quoted! I was refeering to the fact that there was talk about having the signal showing a route for The picc and the district, so you would have something along the lines of the NB home signals at Harrow on the Hill.

*Leans over to Harsig and wispers for a picture*

Which would require both the picc and the district to have the 20mph speed limit over the junction, as the route lights only apply to the lower speed route. (Or both routes if both are at a lower speed than the rest of the line). This in turn leads to an increase in run time and decrease in Journey Time Capability, which is completely the opposite of what the PPP contract demands. Can't see Metronet doing this one without a fight.

hhhmmm funny that! I would prefer to live a bit further west TBH.

The principle of route indicators is that you get one for the slower speed routes. Take Hanger Lane Junction as an example: The speed over the junction is 20 (District) or 25 (Picc). If you're taking the higher speed route, you just get a colour, whereas if you're taking the divergence you need to be aware that not only is the signal clear but it is cleared for a lower speed route, hence the provision of the route indicator.

If the desire is for two route indicators then both routes have to be classed as diverging, therefore both must be at a lower speed (20) than the main line route (25??).



I actually agree with you there Alan. The problem isn't really the cost of doing the work on this one, it's more the cost of changing the signalling principles to suit.

I don't believe two sets of route lights will help either, it will just condition drivers of both lines into slowing down approaching WM20.21 and waiting for a set of route lights to illuminate, without much regard to which set illuminates.

Though what happens if the Picc and District swap branches? ;D

Don't use "D" and "P" then, use "E" for Ealing Broadway and "N" for North Ealing, or if there is space use "EB" and "NE".

Ok, here's a non-ATO version:



Russ