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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 12:17:55 GMT
I have the railcard discount on my Oyster card so the off-peak cap for zones 1-2 is £3.10. The other day, I had already spent £2.90 so I was expecting my next journey to cost only 20p, thus bringing me up to the daily cap. However, I had a problem when touching in and was told that I did not have enough credit on my Oyster card. I explained that, in fact, I had £1 credit and had nearly reached the cap of £3.10. I was told that the minimum fare in zone 1 is £1.50, and I required at least that amount on my Oyster card to be able to start my journey, even though I was about to reach the cap for the day. Why is this?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 22, 2008 12:57:15 GMT
Be gentle with me - I'm well rusty on ticketing - but I'll have a go at answering this:
I would imagine that you still need to have the minimum entry fare for that station, as the cap won't kick in until you complete your journey - it's only by completing the journey that the system will know what to cap you to (ie, you could have gone to zone 3 or 5 or whatever - it's only when you exit within zones 1 or 2 that the system will know the cap can be set as a 1&2 Travelcard).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 13:33:42 GMT
So would I not have needed the £1.50 if I had already reached the cap then?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Mar 22, 2008 13:49:54 GMT
Not once you reach the cap, and providing you stay in zones 1 & 2, no - but the point is, the system can only cap once you have done enough journeys and pass the threshold.
Oyster isn't perfect, and this is yet another example, but unfortunately that's how it works.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 14:51:58 GMT
Be gentle with me - I'm well rusty on ticketing - but I'll have a go at answering this: I would imagine that you still need to have the minimum entry fare for that station, as the cap won't kick in until you complete your journey - it's only by completing the journey that the system will know what to cap you to (ie, you could have gone to zone 3 or 5 or whatever - it's only when you exit within zones 1 or 2 that the system will know the cap can be set as a 1&2 Travelcard). Colin - your reply is spot on with my understanding of the Oyster cap. It catches many people out. Especially as many people go to a booking office and ask for a one day TC on their Oyster cards  Not being highly technical with Oyster - The system will look for a valid Travelcard, then looks for the prepay. If a cap hasn't been reached the entry pod will expect the minimum fare or will reject the Oyster. The exit pod would then apply the cap and refund any over-charge made. I know that many people keep the minimum amount on their Oysters, but I expect that this isn't the "best" way to get maximum flexibility out of Oyster. Another reason why I personally think Oyster is a middle class ticketing system (benefits those able to go online, credit card and top up with larger amounts!) |
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Post by cetacean on Mar 22, 2008 15:19:16 GMT
would imagine that you still need to have the minimum entry fare for that station, as the cap won't kick in until you complete your journey - it's only by completing the journey that the system will know what to cap you to (ie, you could have gone to zone 3 or 5 or whatever - it's only when you exit within zones 1 or 2 that the system will know the cap can be set as a 1&2 Travelcard). I'd like to think that the minimum entry fare reduces to match the distance you are from the nearest possible cap, becoming zero when you reach the cap. Given the minimal credit a lot of people keep on PAYG, I'm sure this problem would come up far too often if this wasn't the case. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 15:41:51 GMT
The system only caps when you finish your journey, not when you start.
As for the minimal credit held on customers cards - depends on the area from my experience. Working on Zone 1 now, my week in the booking office I would say 95% of users out a round figure on their cards £10, £20 etc. Also more than a few putting on £50+
Back in my Zone 3 days - loads of people paying for individual journeys.
Of course not scientific reasearch but from my experience more affluent users of Oyster have an easier time with the system than less affluent users.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2008 16:07:29 GMT
People also want one day travelcards on Oyster to go on NR services more cheaply than a paper one day travelcard.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 22, 2008 17:02:30 GMT
I'm pretty sure that the amount deducted on entry if you've reached a cap is the difference between that cap and the Zones 1 to 9 cap or £4 whichever is less. If you have a Z1 to Z6 cap, then I think it deducts about £2.70 on entry and refunds it all on exit if you don't go outside Zone 6.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2008 12:09:24 GMT
It definitely deducts something once you've reached a cap but refunds it when you touch out because they say you need to continue to touch in and out even when you've reached a cap.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Mar 25, 2008 12:32:03 GMT
It definitely deducts something once you've reached a cap but refunds it when you touch out because they say you need to continue to touch in and out even when you've reached a cap. It can't do anything else - IT doesn't know where you're going next so all it can do is to check you have enough for the maximum distance possible. Even when you've reached the Z1-2 cap. For all it knows you may be heading off for Chesham next. So, as SS Stig says - a middle class device for those who like to top up online!!  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2008 14:23:24 GMT
When you touch in with your oyster, it will deduct £4 regardless of where you are and the system will charge the correct fare when you touch out.
A lot of people ask for one day travelcards on their oyster and they rather confused when you try to tell them that its not a one day TC, just prepay. Even if you are very close to the cap, you will still have to have the minimum fare on the card before you touch in or it will be rejected.
A guy asked me for this one day TC on his oyster and I gave him all the relevant info. He came back about an hour later after being given a penalty fare by SWT. He expected me to refund the £20 and no matter how hard I tried, I could not get him to accept that oyster PAYG is not accepted on SWT or most NR services.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2008 21:21:35 GMT
Okay... my basic understanding of it it thus; [keeping the same Z1-Z2 principle with a railcard discount.
Enter say Victoria, £4 deducted, Exit Oxford Circus, £2.50 refunded [fare was £1.50], Enter Tottenham Court Road, £4 deducted, exit Waterloo £2.50 refunded [fare was £1.50 - total so far is £3.00, enter Embankment, £4 deducted, exit St James's Park, £3.90 refunded, fare was 10p. total so far is £3.10, which is the railcard cap for Z1-Z2... Travel to Moor Park after having the £4 deducted after entering say Victoria, you'll be refunded £2.30, the fare to Z6 is £1.70, add to the cap apready reached, would make £4.80. This is the railcard cap for a Z1-Z6 travelcard.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2008 22:50:07 GMT
Thats basically it.
One problem that keeps cropping up with the daily cap is the cut off time between peak and off peak.
We frequently get people who load £4.80 onto their card (which is the standard off peak cap for Z1-2)
The complain that they cant get in and they are then told that they dont have enough money. When you check the history on the card, they have started travelling before 09.30 and will be charged up to the peak cap which is £6.30.
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