Post by Chris M on Aug 1, 2008 18:03:39 GMT
I started wondering about this after the following post on the "Photography rules chaos" thread, after discussion about photographing the entrance to Fulham Broadway station (which is accessed through a shopping centre), but I thought it was getting a bit off-topic there.
Certainly in the case of Fulham Broadway, but I'm sure the same applies at Hammersmith, the land & building is owned by LU properties - not that I suppose it makes any difference though....
LU's conditions of carriage quoted on the thread about them in this section of the forum mentions only "stations". I don't suppose that there is any guidance about what constitutes a station?
Obviously on the platform side, public areas are (usually) clearly separated from the non-public areas, although grey areas arguably exist at a few locations. I can think of no area where the public definitely or possibly has access that would be logically definable as anything other than "station".
On the street side of the barriers however, things can be less clear. At a station where access is from a station building directly onto the pavement of a public highway (e.g. Neasden, West Hampstead NLL and Jubilee, Becontree, White City, Holland Park, and many others), then it seems pretty clear that the doorway of the station building marks the transition from LU's rules to the rules applicable to a public place.
At stations that have forecourts/car parks owned by LU/TfL (e.g. Debden, Epping, Hatch End, Chorelywood, Woodside Park, etc), does this count as a public place or do LU's rules apply?
Where the forecourt functions as a bus station (e.g. Stratford, Edgware, etc) presumably the bus station rules continue to the door of the station, where rail station rules commence. As (presently) the two are effectively identical this has little practical impact I suspect. However does permission from the rail station supervisor also constitute permission to photograph in or from the bus station?
At stations accessed by subways/bridges/walkways that have no purpose other than access to the station (e.g. Hillingdon, Earl's Court, Baker Street south side) I presume this is considered part of the station?
At stations where access is as above, but these routes also access places other than the station (e.g. Marble Arch, Gants Hill, Leytonstone, etc) are these part of the station or a public place or some other designation? If not part of the station, does the station start where the wicket gates are or another location?
What about where access is through shopping centres? Do the shopping centres at Hammersmith, Fulham Broadway, that are LU property have station rules applying to them? If not, who sets the rules and do we have a right to know them or do we have to believe the opinion of the employee who we speak to, even if this contradicts something said/written elsewhere?
At stations that are combined LU and another operator, can the LU manager give permission to photograph the LU portion from the other operator's portion? What about photographing the other operator's portion from the LU portion? Indeed can the LU station manager give permission to take photos on and of the other operator's portion? What about vice versa?
Where it is not necessarily obvious where the transition from LU station to other station happens (e.g. passages from Euston suburban to Euston LU and from KX mainline concourse to Kings Cross St Pancras LU), whose rules apply? Who can we check with - I don't imagine a busy station supervisor would care to explain in detail where the boundary of LU and NR happens. Would an SA/station cleaner[1]/platform attendant necessarily know where the boundary was?
[1] A station cleaner at Paddington once told me I was not allowed to take photos of the station as it was violating Network Rail's copyright(!).
Sorry if I'm making things too complicated here!
LU's conditions of carriage quoted on the thread about them in this section of the forum mentions only "stations". I don't suppose that there is any guidance about what constitutes a station?
Obviously on the platform side, public areas are (usually) clearly separated from the non-public areas, although grey areas arguably exist at a few locations. I can think of no area where the public definitely or possibly has access that would be logically definable as anything other than "station".
On the street side of the barriers however, things can be less clear. At a station where access is from a station building directly onto the pavement of a public highway (e.g. Neasden, West Hampstead NLL and Jubilee, Becontree, White City, Holland Park, and many others), then it seems pretty clear that the doorway of the station building marks the transition from LU's rules to the rules applicable to a public place.
At stations that have forecourts/car parks owned by LU/TfL (e.g. Debden, Epping, Hatch End, Chorelywood, Woodside Park, etc), does this count as a public place or do LU's rules apply?
Where the forecourt functions as a bus station (e.g. Stratford, Edgware, etc) presumably the bus station rules continue to the door of the station, where rail station rules commence. As (presently) the two are effectively identical this has little practical impact I suspect. However does permission from the rail station supervisor also constitute permission to photograph in or from the bus station?
At stations accessed by subways/bridges/walkways that have no purpose other than access to the station (e.g. Hillingdon, Earl's Court, Baker Street south side) I presume this is considered part of the station?
At stations where access is as above, but these routes also access places other than the station (e.g. Marble Arch, Gants Hill, Leytonstone, etc) are these part of the station or a public place or some other designation? If not part of the station, does the station start where the wicket gates are or another location?
What about where access is through shopping centres? Do the shopping centres at Hammersmith, Fulham Broadway, that are LU property have station rules applying to them? If not, who sets the rules and do we have a right to know them or do we have to believe the opinion of the employee who we speak to, even if this contradicts something said/written elsewhere?
At stations that are combined LU and another operator, can the LU manager give permission to photograph the LU portion from the other operator's portion? What about photographing the other operator's portion from the LU portion? Indeed can the LU station manager give permission to take photos on and of the other operator's portion? What about vice versa?
Where it is not necessarily obvious where the transition from LU station to other station happens (e.g. passages from Euston suburban to Euston LU and from KX mainline concourse to Kings Cross St Pancras LU), whose rules apply? Who can we check with - I don't imagine a busy station supervisor would care to explain in detail where the boundary of LU and NR happens. Would an SA/station cleaner[1]/platform attendant necessarily know where the boundary was?
[1] A station cleaner at Paddington once told me I was not allowed to take photos of the station as it was violating Network Rail's copyright(!).
Sorry if I'm making things too complicated here!
