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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2008 21:11:17 GMT
As there were engineer works today west from Camden Road, there was a half-hourly service over the connection to the WCML/DC local to Kilburn High Road. I found this a rather interesting, if short detour. Nice condition of track near Primrose Hill, itself a forest of buddliea bushes...
I'd love to see the cab perspective of this route!
I'm not aware of any regular passenger moves over this route, so this was a first for me!
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 19, 2008 21:46:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2008 9:29:05 GMT
Hmm, looks interesting that list... I've bookmarked it... so thanks for the heads up.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 20, 2008 10:05:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2008 11:50:12 GMT
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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 20, 2008 11:57:59 GMT
Re engineering work, is it a good idea splitting the Goblin into two replacement bus routes? Forcing people to change at Blackhorse Road, as well as traffic congestion round there wont be popular. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 20, 2008 12:11:40 GMT
Have they not learned from the ELL buses?
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Post by trc666 on Jul 20, 2008 16:53:54 GMT
I was on the diverted NLL yesterday. They were indeed going via Primrose Hill, train I was on actually stopped there too (but obviously didn't open the doors). Train also ran non-stop from Camden Road to Queen's Park, going over the Kilburn High Road crossover on the return journey so a bit of a track bash there too.
Why don't the diverted NLL services call at South Hampstead and Kilburn High Road?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2008 17:03:54 GMT
The train I was on stopped at Prim Hill too for at least 7 minutes. I'd say it makes little sense stopping a train at two stops, only for it to terminate at QPk. I would also say that capacity issues would prevent any extention of diverted trains to Watford etc.
Still, it was a nice little jaunt over a previously non-bashed section of track!
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Post by jswallow on Jul 21, 2008 7:32:52 GMT
If it were one route end-to-end it would be so unreliable as to be useless, and it would also have to be a single deck thanks to the low bridge at Gospel Oak.
The split means you can run double-deckers as a result between Blackhorse Road and Barking. The next question of course is why choose Blackhorse as the split point, and I don't know the answer to that unless it's got somewhere sensible for laying over/turning etc.
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Post by Chris M on Jul 21, 2008 8:11:37 GMT
The next question of course is why choose Blackhorse as the split point, and I don't know the answer to that unless it's got somewhere sensible for laying over/turning etc. There is nowhere obvious looking at the air photo on Google, unless they travel out of service to Walthamstow Central bus station. But I doubt that as there is a separate shuttle bus from Walthamstow Queens Road to Walthamstow Central, whereas it would make more sense to run the eastern bus from Queens Road to Central and the western one from Blackhorse Road to Central. This means that there would be no direct journey between Blackhorse Road and Walthamstow Central, but it would mean that passengers had the full range of benefits, and connections, of the bus station when interchanging between routes. |
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Post by ducatisti on Jul 21, 2008 9:59:02 GMT
Ona similar note and just about not off-topic-ish, there are some "blockbusters" planned by Virgin this summer, taking Voyagers a funny route into Euston from the GC mainline. (I can't remember off the top of my head what the route is)
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Post by Tubeboy on Jul 21, 2008 10:05:52 GMT
Down the Chiltern main line, onto the Greenford branch, Acton main line, Acton Wells Junction.
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Post by ducatisti on Jul 21, 2008 12:30:42 GMT
Ta
(one of the reasons I thought about it was the leader in Modern Railways fulminating against bus replacements - which I entirely agree with).
As the tube is pretty much affiliated (in people's minds) with the bus network anyway, it never seems quite as irritating.
Is the perception different on the LO?
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Post by Oracle on Jul 21, 2008 12:48:39 GMT
The Blockadebusters are up and running, and it seems that they have to sit around at South Ruislip on the Up to await a Chiltern I think. Also possibly the single line that was the GWR/GC Joint Main Line to Greenford...West Junction it would be I think. I think the Down goes: Euston-Willesden Junction (can't remember what the Junction is!)- -West London Junction-Acton Wells Junction-Acton Main Line [Acton East/Poplar Junction I gather]-West Ealing [east Junction]-Greenford (LUL) Bay Junction-Greenford West Junction-Northolt Junction, etc. and by so doing pass some remaining semaphores: www.roscalen.com/signals/Greenford/index.htm |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2008 13:13:27 GMT
The next question of course is why choose Blackhorse as the split point, and I don't know the answer to that unless it's got somewhere sensible for laying over/turning etc. There is nowhere obvious looking at the air photo on Google, unless they travel out of service to Walthamstow Central bus station. But I doubt that as there is a separate shuttle bus from Walthamstow Queens Road to Walthamstow Central, whereas it would make more sense to run the eastern bus from Queens Road to Central and the western one from Blackhorse Road to Central. This means that there would be no direct journey between Blackhorse Road and Walthamstow Central, but it would mean that passengers had the full range of benefits, and connections, of the bus station when interchanging between routes. Blackhorse Road to Walthamstow all ready has a direct bus route, 230 so your solution would work ready well with everyone have an alternate route. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 21, 2008 14:28:50 GMT
Ah, when I said there would be no direct route from Blackhorse Road to Walthamstow Central (which has the 230 and of course the Victoria Line), I did of course mean from Blackhorse Road to Walthamstow Queens Road, which doesn't have an existing parallel bus service according to the journey planner. I believe that a direct link between the two stations has been promised, but I don't know when it's due?
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Post by amershamsi on Jul 21, 2008 15:03:23 GMT
Blackhorse Road-Walthamstow Central will also have a replacement bus service on top of the 230.
Replacement bus B (from Gospel Oak) should really end at Walthamstow, and bus C (from Barking) at Seven Sisters. The GOBLin is still effectively the two lines that merged - OK, so the western half's traffic goes a little bit further than Tottenham, ditto the eastern half. However the overlap isn't much - just South Tottenham and Blackhorse Road.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2008 7:07:22 GMT
I think the Down goes: Euston-Willesden Junction (can't remember what the Junction is!)- Mitre Bridge Junction-West London Junction-Acton Wells Junction-Acton Main Line [Acton East/Poplar Junction I gather]-West Ealing [east Junction]-Greenford (LUL) Bay Junction-Greenford West Junction-Northolt Junction. Should read: Euston - Willesden West London Jcn - Acton Wells Jcn - Acton East Jcn - West Ealing - Greenford South Jcn - Greenford West Jcn - Northolt Jcn. |
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Post by Oracle on Jul 24, 2008 8:18:29 GMT
Thanks! WWLJ is the one that I know existed but was not sure where it was located, and AEJ identifies that with the GWR. Greenford South Junction is at the base of the triangle, and then they pass over Greenford (LUL) Bay Junction , and finally Greenford West Junction. I am obliged! I don't have a Quail so have to use memory and online research. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2008 17:14:53 GMT
In the 'Alternative Services' leaflet in regard to the closures of Gospel Oak-Willeseden Jct etc. it says
Does this mean there is going to be a through service between Stratford and Watford via the NLL and the Primrose Hill Conncection to the Watford DC and WCML, similar to the Broad St./Liverpool St. services axed in the 90s?
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Post by cetacean on Aug 24, 2008 17:23:33 GMT
Yes, all of the Watford-Euston 3 tph services will be diverted to Stratford via Pri,rose Hill (except on Sundays), complemented by a 2tph Gospel Oak-Startford service.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2008 18:58:30 GMT
Just out of interest, exactly what work would have to be done to Primrose Hill to open it again?, other than the obvious gardening  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2008 19:25:06 GMT
AIUI The stairs giving access to the platform are missing, and would need reinstatement - together with the rest of the 'fixtures and fittings'. There'd also be a question as to what extent it didn't meet modern standards (e.g. disability access), and would have to be brought up to them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2008 19:32:25 GMT
Clearing the jungle from the platform, and re-levelling the slabs, possibly moving the Queens Park bound platform signal, as it is roughly in the middle of the 'platform'. The business [furniture] occupies the station building, so they would need to be 'moved on', alas stairs and light fittings/CCTV etc would all need to be reinstated, as I doubt the current ones work or have been vandalised. The platform buildings might need some paint, plus new glass in the waiting room windows!
I think it would be a great idea to reopen Primmy Hill. New residential development very close to the station and thr ever increasing congestion at Camden.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 24, 2008 20:49:11 GMT
Just wondering - how much use does the Graham Road curve get these days. For the unfamiliar, this was the spur built to take NLL trains to Liverpool Street after the closure of Broad Street. I know that there are no regular passenger trains over it.
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Post by Oracle on Aug 24, 2008 21:21:25 GMT
PSUL does not mention its use. The last time I know it was traversed was on a railtour.
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Post by cetacean on Aug 25, 2008 1:14:26 GMT
It stopped having any regular use when WAGN was split up meaning Anglia trains were no longer maintained at Hornsey. It's of no use to freight trains (and also very steep and cheaply constructed), and I don't know of a rusty rail working, so I'd posit it doesn't get used by anything, except possibly maintenance trains.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 25, 2008 8:19:23 GMT
It stopped having any regular use when WAGN was split up meaning Anglia trains were no longer maintained at Hornsey. It's of no use to freight trains (and also very steep and cheaply constructed), and I don't know of a rusty rail working, so I'd posit it doesn't get used by anything, except possibly maintenance trains. I thought as much - it looked pretty rusty last time I passed it. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2008 10:42:47 GMT
I did see a 317 sat on the curve a couple of weeks ago. For what reason and where it was going/coming from I do not know.
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