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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 19:30:47 GMT
I like the Olympia shuttle. It's always been a peaceful little journey -a lthough it seems quite a lot more peopel use it now than, say, 10 years ago.
Did it ever go further north than Olympia? Maybe back in the days when the distinction beteen mainline commuter rail lines and and sub-surface underground lines was more blurred?
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 10, 2008 19:55:48 GMT
The station was initially part of the Outer Circle, and this gives brief details: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_(Olympia)_stationand I believe that it was on what was the West London Extension Railway. The present-day service was preceded by an Exhibitions-only one. Kensington (Olympia) used to have an unadvertised service from Clapham Junction nicknamed the 'Kenny Belle'..reputedly because of the need for staff to get to and from a GPO sorting depot nearby. This was before the present-day service, taking advantage of third-rail electrification provided for stock transfers of Eurostars to and from North Pole Depot to Waterloo International. Services before that were I think either SR DEMU or Western Region DMUs. Even though the LMR 'owned' the station, not the WR or SR. There was also a diesel-hauled Motorail service that ran north from the then purpose-built terminal located just to the north of the Underground platform. There was no, to my knowledge, Underground service to connect with the Motorail services, but there have been occasional trains run to meet with diverted British Rail trains because of engineering work. And there have been occasional Underground railtours! There was until modern times a crossover which enabled trains from Lillie Bridge to get to the WLR tracks and vice versa. It was a facing crossover heading towards Olympia. There was also a trailing point into a short spur which met with the line up from West Kensington to afford access to Lille Bridge.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 10, 2008 20:10:38 GMT
An aside: in the past Underground Roving, i.e. trying to break the record for visiting all the stations in one day, required some interesting foreplanning. This meant that the attempts had to be made:
a) On a Monday-Friday because of the Shoreditch service b) Ditto because of Epping-Ongar c) Taking into account the early closures of the north of the Hainault Loop d) The times when the Aldwych shuttle ran e) Ditto Watford Junction service and, getting back to relevance, e) When there was an Olympia Exhibition on!
I recall that LT were given a list of dates and exhibitions (and shows) by the Olympia authorities, i.e. Earls Court, and the District services were arranged in advance. I believe that I am right that there were cancellations of events at Olympia but the service still ran anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2008 23:20:31 GMT
the crossover at olympia to NR was 4w ( w= points) since i qualified back in 1998 it has always been plain lined but did have a PL&D (point lock and detection) box on it untill roughly 2002 and was forced fed to show a normal indication
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2008 1:11:58 GMT
I like the Olympia shuttle. It's always been a peaceful little journey -a lthough it seems quite a lot more peopel use it now than, say, 10 years ago. Did it ever go further north than Olympia? Maybe back in the days when the distinction beteen mainline commuter rail lines and and sub-surface underground lines was more blurred? The simple answer to the question (did it go further north) is No, the shuttle did not go further north... but read on, it's not so simple. Kensington (Addison Road/Olympia) was at the South end of the West London Railway, built to link the LNWR to the Thames (via the Kensington Canal), later extended by the West London Extension Rly to Clapham Junction, etc. - these were both joint railways, and form the route of today's London Overground Clapham Jcn -Willesden Jcn service. Many other connections were added - for a 1915 map see web.ukonline.co.uk/cj.tolley/rjd/rjd-039.htm - and a wide variety of passenger services were provided over the years (in particular pre WW1). There is also a Wikipedia article at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_London_Line . Of Underground relevence were the Middle Circle - from Moorgate via the Metropolitan and H&C - and the Outer Circle - from Broad street via the North London and Willesden Junction - both of which continued over the District to Mansion House, at least in earlier days. In 1906 the Met/H&C connection was electrified (through to Addison Road), for a curtailed Met worked Middle Circle service. In 1914 Willesden Junction to Earls Court was electrified by the LNWR, for a WJ-EC remnant of the Outer Circle - while initially worked by District trains, this was AIUI only until the LNWR electric trains were ready. In 1940 both the electric services (LT Met from Edgware Road, and LMS Wileesden-Earls Court) were withdrawn, together with remaining advertised steam services from the WLER. An unadvertised service continued to run for Post Office Savings Bank Staff, from Clapham Junction - the 'Kenny Belle' as it became known. The District shuttle from HSK started in 1946 - for many years only at Exhibition times. AIUI, prior to this the District had not worked to (or through) Addison Road (Olympia) since 1914. At this stage there was no segregation between 'Underground' and 'Main Line' - segregation of the District to its bay came later (and removal of all connections even later). The 'Kenny Belle' became London's last steam suburban service (ironically worked by the Southern) - eventually it became advertised, dieselised, and finally developed into the Overground service we have to today.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jul 11, 2008 7:21:07 GMT
Wasn't the BR #-over controlled by Earls Court with Kensington South Main Box? Tubeprune mentions how it worked on his site.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 11, 2008 7:47:10 GMT
There's a scan of the Kensington Olympia diagram somewhere on this site, before the automation enumerated in TC Supplement 15/1970.
Edit: I've found my copy and it says that the crossover (pre-1970) was controlled by a two lever groundframe, released by Annetts Key and permission lever 'A' in Kensington South SB.
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 11, 2008 7:49:19 GMT
In 1906 the Met/H&C connection was electrified (through to Addison Road), for a curtailed Met worked Middle Circle service. Indeed - the WTT for the introduction of that service is quite interesting; not least for being reversed galley.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2008 11:15:36 GMT
Thanks for all the interesting info, everyone. Sorry I haven't had a chance to log on and reply sooner.
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 30, 2008 18:54:57 GMT
i will grab the ones for earls court tomorrow as i was busy today Any luck with these AETECt? Have been updating a database of the ABCD(E) codes this evening, and the Earls Court ones would fill quite a few gaps?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2008 2:05:44 GMT
There is no Olympia TD until South Kensington WB, so it would have to be put up manually. Wrong, no olympia untill earls court actually
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Post by c5 on Aug 1, 2008 9:02:05 GMT
There is no Olympia TD until South Kensington WB, so it would have to be put up manually. Wrong, no olympia untill earls court actually Well you should know! Not far out for a guess though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2008 16:32:34 GMT
yer sorry i will grab them tonight totally forgot its been abit manic at work recently
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2008 6:48:15 GMT
The only places you can have an Olympia platform train description is Edgware Road, High Street Kensington or Earl's Court. However they did provide a temp Olympia during the cover-way work a few year ago in the city area only. That's why sometimes when trains are ask to reverse at Olympia as well as Earl's Court, the trains are put up on the platform train describer as Putney Bridge (this is to jog the memory of the S/O).
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Post by 21146 on Aug 20, 2008 10:44:07 GMT
I thought I've keen "Olympia" on the St.James's Pk DMI. Am I imaging things?
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Post by happybunny on Aug 20, 2008 10:44:53 GMT
The only places you can have an Olympia platform train description is Edgware Road, High Street Kensington or Earl's Court. However they did provide a temp Olympia during the cover-way work a few year ago in the city area only. That's why sometimes when trains are ask to reverse at Olympia as well as Earl's Court, the trains are put up on the platform train describer as Putney Bridge (this is to jog the memory of the S/O). So if there is a train at Edgware Road, that is given an Olympia description, this shows on the DMI's there as Olympia ? What happens when that train arrives at Paddington, what would the DMI there show ? How come it isn't possible to describe them as Olympia at other stations ?
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Post by District Dave on Aug 20, 2008 13:50:02 GMT
I thought I've keen "Olympia" on the St.James's Pk DMI. Am I imaging things? Yes - it cannot be displayed through the central area.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2008 17:37:45 GMT
I thought I've keen "Olympia" on the St.James's Pk DMI. Am I imaging things? Yes - it cannot be displayed through the central area. So if a train were scheduled to go to Olympia from, say, Upminster, what would the DMI at Victoria display it as going to?
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Post by District Dave on Aug 20, 2008 18:04:22 GMT
Yes - it cannot be displayed through the central area. So if a train were scheduled to go to Olympia from, say, Upminster, what would the DMI at Victoria display it as going to? Your question is I have to say entirely hypothetical. Though (possibly) the train could be timetabled to go to Olympia, it cannot be described as such - at least on the equipment the public sees on the platform describers or those on the trains. I don't know if the signallers train describers can handle such a diagram, but I don't think so. Normally westbound trains are diverted to OLY and will have to be announced as such. As stated for the platfom describers I *think* the train would have to run as far as Earls Court before it could be amended to OLY - I have to admit I haven't checked to see if there is an option - I'll happily stand corrected!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2008 18:08:48 GMT
So if a train were scheduled to go to Olympia from, say, Upminster, what would the DMI at Victoria display it as going to? Your question is I have to say entirely hypothetical. Though (possibly) the train could be timetabled to go to Olympia, it cannot be described as such - at least on the equipment the public sees on the platform describers or those on the trains. I don't know if the signallers train describers can handle such a diagram, but I don't think so. Normally westbound trains are diverted to OLY and will have to be announced as such. As stated for the platfom describers I *think* the train would have to run as far as Earls Court before it could be amended to OLY - I have to admit I haven't checked to see if there is an option - I'll happily stand corrected! Oh, I realise it was hypothetical - I was just curious. So, basically, such a train would have to be initally displayed as going to, say, Richmond, and then alter it's destination at Earls Court?
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Post by trainopd78 on Aug 20, 2008 18:12:20 GMT
They tend to describe them as Putney Bridges giving them the correct description at South Ken once the equipment is able. PYB is chosen as its not a regular D stock reversing point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2008 18:16:56 GMT
They tend to describe them as Putney Bridges giving them the correct description at South Ken once the equipment is able. PYB is chosen as its not a regular D stock reversing point. Thanks.
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Post by happybunny on Aug 20, 2008 19:47:41 GMT
There is a route on the DVA though, I believe, for Upminster to Olympia. So you could Display Olympia destination and set the DVA up for it, from anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2008 21:41:19 GMT
There is a route on the DVA though, I believe, for Upminster to Olympia. So you could Display Olympia destination and set the DVA up for it, from anywhere. You certainly could.
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Post by District Dave on Aug 21, 2008 7:38:56 GMT
There is a route on the DVA though, I believe, for Upminster to Olympia. So you could Display Olympia destination and set the DVA up for it, from anywhere. OK - never noticed that one - probably as I've never looked (or needed to!).
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Post by trainopd78 on Aug 21, 2008 15:44:25 GMT
As mentioned, Olympia can be displayed all the way from Edgware Road as we used to run ERD to OLY services in the morning peak up until around 4 years ago (at least I think it was that long ago? losing track of time ;D)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2008 16:16:07 GMT
As mentioned, Olympia can be displayed all the way from Edgware Road as we used to run ERD to OLY services in the morning peak up until around 4 years ago (at least I think it was that long ago? losing track of time ;D) I think they had already gone when I started 6 years ago - certainly I never drove one.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2008 13:42:18 GMT
It is impossible to put up a "Olympia" or for us its "O" TD at earls court control room in the city area, We can only change TD's in the city area at Tower Hill, Mansion House, Embankment (Charing Cross on the Button), South Kensington and Gloucester Road. We got a WS "West Ken Special" where it come up as Not in service or Special this route train westbound towards Olympia then to Lillie Bridge Depot. What goes on between these 2 points is anyone guess. So if the TD's are wrong on the above location there is a strong chance if not corrected the train will get a wrong route
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2008 6:53:23 GMT
only if the programme machines are in FCFS
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