Post by Chris W on Jun 29, 2008 22:01:29 GMT
NO IT IS NOT!!!!
I've had FOUR incidents today as regards private and personal photography on LU. This is teaching me that that many LU staff are IMO either untrained, incompetent, unprofessional, intentionally obstructive or at the very least jobsworth.
INCIDENT 1:
Location: East Finchley (Northern Line) southbound platform
Date/Time: 29/6/08 11:48 am
Train: driver of 51530 (actual train running number unclear in photograph)
Circumstance of Incident:
Having taken a photograph at the end of the southbound platform (within the public area and without use of flash) I then board the last car. The T/O announces over the tannoy that photography on LU is a CRIMINAL offence and no kind of recording equipment is permitted as stated in LU byelaws.
INCIDENT 2:
Location: Kennington (Southbound Bank branch platform)
Time: 29/6/08 @ 13:03
Circumstance of Incident:
As a result of signalling problems at Camden Town all Bank branch south bound Northern Line trains are terminating at Kennington. I take a photograph of a preceding train (without flash) while already stationary in the platform having terminated. The platform SA informs me that ALL photography is banned and informs me that I am wrong when I explain Conditions of Carriage and the fact that my photography is for private/personal use. He also blocks my view when the 38ts enters the platform repeating HIS (IMO made up on the spot) rule.
INCIDENT 3:
Location: Clapham Common
Date/Time: 29/6/08 @ 14:51
Circumstance of Incident:
3 forum members (including myself) have alighted and are at the far end of the island platform (within the yellow lines). Two additional individuals arrive, one of which has a tripod (contrary to Conditions of Carriage sec. 4.5). After announcements over the tannoy about ALL photography being banned an S/A walks past me (I am holding my camera which was very visible) and moves the character with the tripod on. Whilst walking back he comments on his actions in a pleasant light hearted manner. More announcements that photography is banned on LU.
The same S/A returns and tells me that flash photography isn’t allowed. I agree with him and show him that my flash is turned off (I’m using a low light lens). Yet more announcements that photography is banned.
The Station Supervisor arrives and tells me that he has been making announcements that photography is not permitted on LU. I politely inform him of (yes you’ve guessed it – section 4.5 Conditions of Carriage) which he appears to ignore and continues on his rant. I then introduce him to other forum members where he continues that photography is banned as a result of security issues AND/OR we should have a permit from LU. He then blocks several of us from taking photos whilst the 38ts enters and passes through the station (I highly irritated, ignore him and get a few images). We then ask him to take us to his office and show us the rules/regulations.
Whilst waiting outside the Station Supervisors office I ask the ticket office if they have a copy of Conditions of Carriage. They reply that they do not, but that they are available online.
The Station Supervisor appears with a media permit leaflet which we inform him is for students/commercial photography and not for private personal use. We ask if photography is a security issue, why would a terrorist use a large DSLR camera and consequently be in full/open view of CCTV or might they be more inclined to surreptitiously use a camera phone to record sensitive images about LU?
The S/S acknowledges that he was aware that the 38ts was passing through and claims that he thought that we were with the character with the tripod (who had already been moved on by the time he got involved). He goes on to admit that he is open to the suggestion that he may be wrong and that he will read up on the rules/regulations.
Name/details of SS obtained (Admins aware)
INCIDENT 4:
Location: Sloane Street (District Line)
Time: 29/6/08 @ 15:25
Circumstance of Incident:
We wish to do some photography at Sloane Square on the District/Circle Line. As a result of previous experiences in the day I suggest that we speak to the Station Supervisor to obtain permission first.
Our initial request direct to the Station Supervisor is met with a blanket no of ALL photography on LU is banned. I repeat (do I need to say it again – section 4.5 of CofC – see I’m abbreviating it now!) and confirm that we will abide by it. An S/A is now sent away by the S/S to confirm the regulations.
After 10-15 mins wait outside his office when a copy of the CofC is obtained, we are permitted to take photography!
Annoyed of Brentwood – yes I most certainly am!!!!
A WAY FORWARD
IMO print out and carry the conditions of carriage with you. When (not if) you are challenged, should the S/A or S/S not accept the rules ask them for:
Be persistent (not argumentative/challenging/aggressive) until they give that information and do not allow yourself to be fobbed off with weak security or media permit excuses!!!
Alternatively ask permission from the S/S first (yes this can be aggravating, particularly when it is currently perfectly legal to take photographs as long as one follows section 4.5 of CofC).
Other suggestions please???
I've had FOUR incidents today as regards private and personal photography on LU. This is teaching me that that many LU staff are IMO either untrained, incompetent, unprofessional, intentionally obstructive or at the very least jobsworth.
INCIDENT 1:
Location: East Finchley (Northern Line) southbound platform
Date/Time: 29/6/08 11:48 am
Train: driver of 51530 (actual train running number unclear in photograph)
Circumstance of Incident:
Having taken a photograph at the end of the southbound platform (within the public area and without use of flash) I then board the last car. The T/O announces over the tannoy that photography on LU is a CRIMINAL offence and no kind of recording equipment is permitted as stated in LU byelaws.
INCIDENT 2:
Location: Kennington (Southbound Bank branch platform)
Time: 29/6/08 @ 13:03
Circumstance of Incident:
As a result of signalling problems at Camden Town all Bank branch south bound Northern Line trains are terminating at Kennington. I take a photograph of a preceding train (without flash) while already stationary in the platform having terminated. The platform SA informs me that ALL photography is banned and informs me that I am wrong when I explain Conditions of Carriage and the fact that my photography is for private/personal use. He also blocks my view when the 38ts enters the platform repeating HIS (IMO made up on the spot) rule.
INCIDENT 3:
Location: Clapham Common
Date/Time: 29/6/08 @ 14:51
Circumstance of Incident:
3 forum members (including myself) have alighted and are at the far end of the island platform (within the yellow lines). Two additional individuals arrive, one of which has a tripod (contrary to Conditions of Carriage sec. 4.5). After announcements over the tannoy about ALL photography being banned an S/A walks past me (I am holding my camera which was very visible) and moves the character with the tripod on. Whilst walking back he comments on his actions in a pleasant light hearted manner. More announcements that photography is banned on LU.
The same S/A returns and tells me that flash photography isn’t allowed. I agree with him and show him that my flash is turned off (I’m using a low light lens). Yet more announcements that photography is banned.
The Station Supervisor arrives and tells me that he has been making announcements that photography is not permitted on LU. I politely inform him of (yes you’ve guessed it – section 4.5 Conditions of Carriage) which he appears to ignore and continues on his rant. I then introduce him to other forum members where he continues that photography is banned as a result of security issues AND/OR we should have a permit from LU. He then blocks several of us from taking photos whilst the 38ts enters and passes through the station (I highly irritated, ignore him and get a few images). We then ask him to take us to his office and show us the rules/regulations.
Whilst waiting outside the Station Supervisors office I ask the ticket office if they have a copy of Conditions of Carriage. They reply that they do not, but that they are available online.
The Station Supervisor appears with a media permit leaflet which we inform him is for students/commercial photography and not for private personal use. We ask if photography is a security issue, why would a terrorist use a large DSLR camera and consequently be in full/open view of CCTV or might they be more inclined to surreptitiously use a camera phone to record sensitive images about LU?
The S/S acknowledges that he was aware that the 38ts was passing through and claims that he thought that we were with the character with the tripod (who had already been moved on by the time he got involved). He goes on to admit that he is open to the suggestion that he may be wrong and that he will read up on the rules/regulations.
Name/details of SS obtained (Admins aware)
INCIDENT 4:
Location: Sloane Street (District Line)
Time: 29/6/08 @ 15:25
Circumstance of Incident:
We wish to do some photography at Sloane Square on the District/Circle Line. As a result of previous experiences in the day I suggest that we speak to the Station Supervisor to obtain permission first.
Our initial request direct to the Station Supervisor is met with a blanket no of ALL photography on LU is banned. I repeat (do I need to say it again – section 4.5 of CofC – see I’m abbreviating it now!) and confirm that we will abide by it. An S/A is now sent away by the S/S to confirm the regulations.
After 10-15 mins wait outside his office when a copy of the CofC is obtained, we are permitted to take photography!
Annoyed of Brentwood – yes I most certainly am!!!!
A WAY FORWARD
IMO print out and carry the conditions of carriage with you. When (not if) you are challenged, should the S/A or S/S not accept the rules ask them for:
- Name/job title
- Details of the rule (section/number of which document) that bans ALL photography including private & personal
Be persistent (not argumentative/challenging/aggressive) until they give that information and do not allow yourself to be fobbed off with weak security or media permit excuses!!!
Alternatively ask permission from the S/S first (yes this can be aggravating, particularly when it is currently perfectly legal to take photographs as long as one follows section 4.5 of CofC).
Other suggestions please???
