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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 21:11:14 GMT
Transfers were tried on the prototype D stock refurb and they were peeling at the edges after a couple of months. c2c use transfers on all of their trains and the transfers don't seem to peel off, so it doesn't seem to be down to the transfers, only the application and maintenance. Or possibly the construction or materials of the surfaces onto which the transfers are attached - the c2c trains were presumably designed to take transfers right from the design phase - D stocks were designed to be unpainted and left as bare metal. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2008 21:15:23 GMT
But why is it always the c stock which are being tagged? I watched some videos of the district/circle from the 80's I saw clean D stock and completely covered C stock Probably for the same reason as now, which is that C stocks are stored away from depots far more than D stocks, as D stocks are usually kept in large depots instead of other points like Triangle Sidings or other places away from Hammersmith. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 13:24:35 GMT
Yes. No anti-graffiti measure is 100% effective, but you don't see carriages with every glass surface well and truly etched like you used to. CApital punishment wouldnt be too far off 100% I imagine |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 6, 2008 21:14:05 GMT
without wanting to get political, capital punishment is not actually an effective deterrent.
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Post by londonstuff on Aug 6, 2008 22:13:55 GMT
yes it is. In early 1930s Germany, Hitler made burglary, which was a increasingly popular crime then, a capital punishment. Burglary of all types stopped almost overnight and apart from one or two fools, who were duly hanged, burglary completely stopped. I'm not suggesting that here, but I'd say capital punishment is fairly effective. I'd sooner see the scrotes clean the streets and deep clean the trains at night...
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Post by Chris M on Aug 6, 2008 23:49:23 GMT
In contrast there is no significant difference in murder rates between US states that have the death penalty and those that don't.
I agree that graffiti "artists" should be required to clean up their work, and vandals repair/pay for repair to what they break.
There have, however, been several threads on suitable punishments for crime on this forum previously (someone more skilled at finding old threads than I may be kind enough to point one out for you, should you desire). One of those threads would be a more appropriate place to continue the conversation along these lines, so that one of the forum staff doesn't have to lock this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2008 20:01:54 GMT
yes it is. In early 1930s Germany, Hitler made burglary, which was a increasingly popular crime then, a capital punishment. Burglary of all types stopped almost overnight and apart from one or two fools, who were duly hanged, burglary completely stopped. I'm not suggesting that here, but I'd say capital punishment is fairly effective. I'd sooner see the scrotes clean the streets and deep clean the trains at night... I know its not what you are suggesting but I dont think using hitlers methods are particularly appropriate in todays day and age. or ever in fact. WEEK OF SICK? NO LDI ITS STRAIGHT TO THE FRONT LINE FOR YOU SONNY JIM! |
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Post by 21146 on Aug 12, 2008 23:26:46 GMT
But why is it always the c stock which are being tagged? I watched some videos of the district/circle from the 80's I saw clean D stock and completely covered C stock Probably for the same reason as now, which is that C stocks are stored away from depots far more than D stocks, as D stocks are usually kept in large depots instead of other points like Triangle Sidings or other places away from Hammersmith. If these facts are known then surely Metronet should adjust their policies accordingly regarding the security of C Stock stabling points instead of perhaps shrugging their shoulders? Didn't they knew the "risk" when they took on the contract under PPP? In fact history seems to suggest the fleet management of the C Stock have been hiding behind this excuse for over 30 years (including my time at Barking Met in 1979 when the sidings car examiner was only interested in DR trains). |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2008 1:23:03 GMT
without wanting to get political, capital punishment is not actually an effective deterrent. It deters the person under sentence. |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 13, 2008 10:16:11 GMT
without wanting to get political, capital punishment is not actually an effective deterrent. It deters the person under sentence. Which is pointless, as you need to deter the people who haven't committed the crime yet. And, time and again all around the world it has been shown that capital punishment is no more effective a deterrent than civilised means. |
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Post by Chris W on Aug 13, 2008 11:21:49 GMT
IMO there's no perfect way of dealing with these so-called " graffiti artists" (I cannot think of a more inaccurate noun to refer to them as  ) The old Daily Mail 'ang em up cry is an understandable one, but will always be ineffective. An old chestnut I know, but perhaps a better way may be to get them to remove graffiti from trains for x number of weeks/months. Yes it will cost more to train them how to use the removal kit/railway procedures, not to mention railway staff to supervise, however one of two things might happen: - they may see the pointlessness in their so-called art on railways
- they may decide that a career in the industry may be an option (although many in the railway industry may object to this)
Its not perfect, as it will be costly to implement, but surely not as much of the pointless measly fine/other community service orders that they get from courts if they are caught - how does that deter them again?? What happened in Barking in 2006 (deaths of 2 trespassing graffiti artists) hasn't had an effect as other characters seem to have the opinion of 'it'll never happen to me'. In the twenty years since graffiti came across the Atlantic from the USA, its been a scourge of LU. The painting of stock was probably an intrinsic part of establishing an identity as much as making it easier to clean graffitied trains, however no method of discouragement from this activity has worked to date. Any policy of punishment must be joined up in order to have an effect - surely that would be not only cleaning up graffiti, but also something that would teaches the perpetrators of the futility of their actions. |
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Aug 13, 2008 17:46:29 GMT
Whilst I do not wish for this thread to keep straying too far off topic, I was talking to someone from Singapore on MSN earlier regarding this, and he said that not only would an offender almost certainly get a prison term, they would get between 20 and 100 lashes as well!
Barbaric perhaps, but it certainly seems to work over there as a deterrent.
Meantime, I know the cost would be huge, but if all units were under cover overnight, the VANDALS (because I don't regard graffiti as an art) wouldn't be able to attack them.
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Post by johnb on Aug 14, 2008 11:02:20 GMT
OT but: capital punishment *is* a deterrent for petty crimes (which, like it or not, include grafitti). It's not a deterrent for crimes like murder, simply because almost nobody committing murder makes a rational calculation "I'll only go to jail for 15 years if I'm caught; that makes it well worthwhile" - rather, people are (permanently or temporarily) mad, or wasted, or don't think they'll get caught at all.
Chris W's approach seems best - I'd rather we taught kids that defacing others' property is a stupid waste of time by making them clean it up, than taught them that violence is an acceptable response to property damage...
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