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Post by 21146 on Jun 7, 2008 16:59:53 GMT
The current On The Move refers to the use of Single Line Working on the Met and says this was the first example on LU for 26 years. Surely this was regularly performed much more recently on the Stanmore branch, albeit under the "Train Locked In" rules?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 7, 2008 18:59:29 GMT
I'm not sure where On the Move got their figure of 26 years from - the most recent example I can find in the TTN pile is TTN 256/84 where the Bakerloo was shut between Picc Circus and Waterloo. Train 210 did 53 shuttles on the southbound line on 25/11, 2/12 and 9/12 between Elephant and Waterloo.
Although there is a significant difference between SLW and 'train locked in'.
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Post by c5 on Jun 7, 2008 22:24:12 GMT
I think it mentioned making changes to the rule books for the single line working on the Met.
What these were for I don't know. I think that OTM referred to the Chilterns using one line and the Engineer's Possesion being on the other.
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Post by tubeprune on Jun 8, 2008 11:05:18 GMT
Surely the basic criteria for "Single Line Working" is that a service is worked over a single line in both directions between two crossovers. The "one engine in steam" or "shuttle" services we have seen in recent years worked with a single train is not single line working.
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Post by c5 on Jun 8, 2008 13:03:22 GMT
Surely the basic criteria for "Single Line Working" is that a service is worked over a single line in both directions between two crossovers. The "one engine in steam" or "shuttle" services we have seen in recent years worked with a single train is not single line working. In that case TP would the Westbourne Park to Paddington Sub operation in the summer of 2005 have been one of the last |
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Post by tubeprune on Jun 8, 2008 16:04:44 GMT
Surely the basic criteria for "Single Line Working" is that a service is worked over a single line in both directions between two crossovers. The "one engine in steam" or "shuttle" services we have seen in recent years worked with a single train is not single line working. In that case TP would the Westbourne Park to Paddington Sub operation in the summer of 2005 have been one of the last Maybe, although I wasn't present and I don't know what they did there. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jun 8, 2008 17:37:21 GMT
Curiously, I can't find any reference immediately specific to the 'shuttle services', apart from Wrong Direction Movements probably applying to the 'locked in' movement heading off in the other direction; SLW is the implementation of Rule 189 - 208 of whatever became the modern equivalent of the 1933 rule book, and section 'K' in the 1969, 1974 and 1990 rule books.
Interesting to see over the years how the diagrams disappeared from the rule books and migrated into training documents.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2008 18:30:30 GMT
We did single line working on the Jubilee line not that long ago (maybe 18 months ago) between Stanmore and Kingsbury.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2008 19:54:49 GMT
From memory - the Northern Line also did something similar after back in July 2005, between Balham & Morden.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2008 20:43:12 GMT
We did single line working on the Jubilee line not that long ago (maybe 18 months ago) between Stanmore and Kingsbury. While the Wembley Park upgrade work was going on, that was two parallel single lines with a train locked in on both roads. Until one train had problems and the service was suspended whilst all the points had to be unclipped to swap over the trains. |
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Post by londonstuff on Jun 24, 2008 14:48:25 GMT
The Jubilee definitely did it sometime in the last few years, as it's documented in one of the 'The Tube' DVDs that was on Sky a few years ago. From memory, they had it all set up and then a fault occurred [on a train rather than signals, I think] and so they had to release all the locked points, etc.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 5, 2008 1:23:28 GMT
We did single line working on the Jubilee line not that long ago (maybe 18 months ago) between Stanmore and Kingsbury. Funnily enough, I've been sorting through some Jubilee TTNs this evening and the time in question (I think) would have been on weekends during 2005 - I've just put into the library a TTN (Jubilee 10/05) for Engineering Work between Neasden and Kingsbury, commencing 22nd January. There were two trains shuttling Stanmore - Kingsbury; one on each line. |
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Post by tubeprune on Sept 5, 2008 12:06:19 GMT
We did single line working on the Jubilee line not that long ago (maybe 18 months ago) between Stanmore and Kingsbury. Funnily enough, I've been sorting through some Jubilee TTNs this evening and the time in question (I think) would have been on weekends during 2005 - I've just put into the library a TTN (Jubilee 10/05) for Engineering Work between Neasden and Kingsbury, commencing 22nd January. There were two trains shuttling Stanmore - Kingsbury; one on each line. IMHO, this is not "Single Line Working" in the rule book sense. As I've said before, it means the service is worked through a signal line in both directions. It requires a crossover at each end of the line under SLW so trains can regain the correct road. The problem with this system is crossovers. They are in increasingly short supply as they have been taken out over the years to satisfy budget cuts. Also, most of them are trailing crossovers, requiring a shunt to get trains into and out of the single line section. This is not efficient, so shuttles are the favoured option these days. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2008 12:21:34 GMT
Thinking back, would the last true instance of SLW have been that at Totteridge in about 1981/2? From what I remember there was subsidence affecting the southbound line, so all trains used the northbound line between High Barnet and a crossover to the south of T&W - I'm not sure exactly where the crossover is/was.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 5, 2008 15:46:10 GMT
Funnily enough, I've been sorting through some Jubilee TTNs this evening and the time in question (I think) would have been on weekends during 2005 - I've just put into the library a TTN (Jubilee 10/05) for Engineering Work between Neasden and Kingsbury, commencing 22nd January. There were two trains shuttling Stanmore - Kingsbury; one on each line. IMHO, this is not "Single Line Working" in the rule book sense. As I've said before, it means the service is worked through a signal line in both directions. It requires a crossover at each end of the line under SLW so trains can regain the correct road. I agree utterly TP: Although there is a significant difference between SLW and 'train locked in'. The problem with this system is crossovers. They are in increasingly short supply as they have been taken out over the years to satisfy budget cuts. Also, most of them are trailing crossovers, requiring a shunt to get trains into and out of the single line section. This is not efficient, so shuttles are the favoured option these days. Shuttles can run a reasonable service - citing the example above of Jubilee TTN 10/05 the service was at ¼ hour intervals ex-Stanmore 0445 - 0015, with the last two running Ety to Kingsbury returning at 0043 on the NB, 0103 on the SB. Sunday service again ¼ hour intervals 0630 (but not 0645) - 2400, with the last Kingsbury bound in sevice not Ety. I'm sure for 'proper' SLW to be used it would need to maintain a through service beyond Kingsbury to Neasden; and having watched (and suffered from it several times on both the Settle and Carlisle and over Polquhap) I think SLW would be hard pressed these day to maintain even a 15 minute frequency.  |
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