Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2007 3:20:19 GMT
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Phil
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RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on Nov 21, 2007 7:59:46 GMT
Oh dear - there may well be an mid-air collision between the cuckoos that live in the clouds and all those flying pigs!!!!!
What a load of idealists with unlimited pockets.
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Post by suncloud on Nov 21, 2007 11:04:55 GMT
I love the idea that tunnels can be widened in overnight possessions... So signalling and communications team come and get their cabling out the way... Lift the tracks... Remove the old tunnel lining... widen the tunnel... put in new tunnel lining... shore up joins between widened and unwidened sections... relay tracks... sort out signalling/comms infrastructure... have all the work thoroughly inspected... get all the spoil and equipment back out... and let the nightly maintenance carry on as usual... Course they can do all that in the 4 hours current is off They had the right idea with deep level tubes... I'm sure it's still cheaper and easier to dig new tube tunnels than do this level of work to existing ones. With little disruption to existing services. It's just political will and financial backing that's lacking
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2007 13:23:01 GMT
Wow do they really think thats possible?
All this widing tunnels reminds me of the CSLR widing before it became the Northern Line.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 21, 2007 18:12:38 GMT
Granted public transport projects in London seem to take for ever to get off the drawing board, but one must have a sense of realism too. Its good to dream, and its even better to try to make them come to fruition, but one cannot ignor certain facts about lack of money, ageing infrastructure, high expectations and low levels of room for error. The time will come when things will need to be renewed, reengineerd, replaced and alterd, and I'm sure we can all think of twenty things with the tube alone that would benefit London; but we must remember not to become overly frustrated at things impractical to achieve instantly, and not to forget that progress takes time.
Having said all that, I personally still recon London will be in a pickle transportwise by the time 2020 comes about!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2007 20:18:25 GMT
Wow! Isn't it easy to be smugly complacent about how to fix things when you have absolutely no idea how things work. Those ideas sound as though they come from primary school children lol. Thanks for posting somerhimpson.
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 21, 2007 21:07:18 GMT
I love the idea that tunnels can be widened in overnight possessions... So signalling and communications team come and get their cabling out the way... Lift the tracks... Remove the old tunnel lining... widen the tunnel... put in new tunnel lining... shore up joins between widened and unwidened sections... relay tracks... sort out signalling/comms infrastructure... have all the work thoroughly inspected... get all the spoil and equipment back out... and let the nightly maintenance carry on as usual... Course they can do all that in the 4 hours current is off They had the right idea with deep level tubes... I'm sure it's still cheaper and easier to dig new tube tunnels than do this level of work to existing ones. With little disruption to existing services. It's just political will and financial backing that's lacking Actually it is quite feasible to widen tunnels in normal engineering hours, it was done at Angel when the new station was being constructed and it was done between Old St. and Moorgate in the mid 1990s. Of course in theory and in practise digging a shaft down to an existing tunnel and building a new one around it is nothing unusual and in general terms it has little effect on the working railway. Whilst that is happening cables will already be being diverted etc within the existing tunnels and other works as necessary. It is all tried and tested but it doesn't happen in a night, it takes months and months. However, far less is done in real terms per shift in today's H&S conscious world despite the automation of many tasks and state of the art machinery. When I started on the Underground the stage one Jubilee line was nearing completion and the amount of work done in a nightshift back than would amaze many today. I remember my very first night at Baker Street running lead cables between St. John's Wood and Baker Street part of an installation gang of eight Whitechapel signal staff. There were gangs from Earls Court, Baker Street and Wembley Park signals working there too running cables, installing equipment, laying points and wiring the IMR and relay rooms. The platforms were as busy as in the rush hour with Italian floor tilers, plasterers, wall tilers, electricians and others and billposters too, people in all the tunnels, and in every nook and cranny including the vent shaft, the inverts and the escalator machine chambers. All protected in a possession taken within minutes of the discharge of traction but it just doesn't work like that any more. Protection alone is a major undertaking these days, it is simply not possible to do today what was done 30 years ago or indeed 80 years ago. I spent some time at London Bridge diverting train radio and other comms circuits and the working conditions were horrendous with bulldozers running up and down the tunnels, the track having been lifted, great piles of spoil everywhere and everything removed ready for enlargement and interception. It could well be cheaper to build from scratch but interchange is what it's all about and that is where the money is spent because it has to be.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2007 0:04:42 GMT
Just think of the scrap value which can be realised from that unnecessary fourth rail!
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Post by edwin on Nov 22, 2007 1:12:28 GMT
Noooo! Please don't widen the tunnels. Then we'd have bland normal sized trains, the Tube train is as Londoney as Double-decker buses!
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 22, 2007 1:23:53 GMT
Ha ha! Yeah that third rail really is terrible.......and the fourth....!! What a bunch of mugs! They should sit in parliament and throw insults at each other! I've not been, but I bet the Delhi Metro is TOTALLY different to LU! I expect the H&S practices are different too! We know what the ES is like so its contributors arn't going to be any better are they?
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on Nov 22, 2007 10:10:46 GMT
Having said all that, I personally still recon London will be in a pickle transportwise by the time 2020 comes about! Possibly, but not necessarily the Underground: 1.There is limited scope for more new houses in most of the LU area (generally). The predicted increase in commuters (if at all - see 2 below) will affect NR mainly. 2. There is limited possibility of much more industry/offices in the LU area - companies are still tending to move out not in. 3. Things like the congestion charge make things self-regulating on terms of who uses public transport and who drives. So yes, there will be a problem generally but the only real (extra!) overloading on LU will be if tourist numbers suddenly go through the roof!
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