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Post by sophie on May 16, 2008 13:03:28 GMT
When travelling from Green Park to Westminster, just after leaving Green Park, I can see a tunnel leading away to the right. I've read this leads to the old Charing Cross terminus.
When travelling from Westminster to Green Park, just before arriving at Green Park, there is a tunnel on the right that joins the northbound line. I don't know for sure if this comes from the Charing Cross terminus, but I'm guessing it must do? I don't remember ever travelling on the Jubilee Line to Charing Cross but from the pictures it looks like there were at least two platforms and of course it wasn't planned as a terminus. But maybe they were only connected to one tunnel like Aldwych?
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Post by astock5000 on May 16, 2008 15:16:22 GMT
That tunnel must come from Charing Cross. A line as busy as the Jubilee with only one platform at the end of the line wouldn't work.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2008 15:20:37 GMT
There were definitely two platforms at Charing Cross.
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Post by superteacher on May 17, 2008 9:59:00 GMT
It should be noted that there ARE still two platforms at Charing Cross, and the route and station are in working order. The Charing Cross plaforms are used to reverse trains in times of disruption (empty), and are also used for a lot of filming.
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Post by Chris M on May 17, 2008 11:51:08 GMT
Would it be possible to detrain at Charing Cross in an emergency?
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Post by railtechnician on May 17, 2008 13:22:23 GMT
Would it be possible to detrain at Charing Cross in an emergency? It is possible to detrain at Charing Cross, as has been stated the signalling is fully operational, in fact I used to maintain the points and signalling there, after the JLE opened, as it was part of my maintenance area. Obviously the fact that it is possible doesn't necessarily mean that it would happen because that is determined by the operating department i.e LUL. |
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Post by sophie on May 17, 2008 13:45:18 GMT
That tunnel must come from Charing Cross. A line as busy as the Jubilee with only one platform at the end of the line wouldn't work. Thank you. I was fairly sure it had to be but this site which seems to be right about everything else just didn't mention it - underground-history.co.uk/see.phpI think recently when there was a big power failure on the Jubilee and people were trapped for 3 hours some people walked down the track to Charing Cross station? |
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Post by Tubeboy on May 17, 2008 15:20:00 GMT
I think an important point to raise is the state of the Jubilee escalators at Chaing X, they are life expired. Are they still given maintenance checks? THAT [the escalators] would be the only thing that would hinder an emergency detrainment there.
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Post by Chris M on May 17, 2008 15:26:09 GMT
I think I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the esalators at CHX Jubilee have been/were about to be/might possibly be replaced by a fixed stairway.
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Post by Tubeboy on May 17, 2008 15:34:00 GMT
I think I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the esalators at CHX Jubilee have been/were about to be/might possibly be replaced by a fixed stairway. If thats the case, then an emergency detrainment is highly unlikely, as the train could well include people with breathing problems, the old, mobility impaired etc, and they would have great difficulty getting out of the station.The train would tip out at Green Park or Finchley Road in reality. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2008 17:06:03 GMT
When travelling from Green Park to Westminster, just after leaving Green Park, I can see a tunnel leading away to the right. I've read this leads to the old Charing Cross terminus. Sophie - my tube track maps at thelondontube.org.uk/trackmaps/ (also accessible via my signature) should help with this question and any other track layout questions. The maps only cover the deep tube lines, and not the sub-surface lines. |
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Post by Dmitri on May 17, 2008 17:48:52 GMT
state of the Jubilee escalators at Chaing X, they are life expired Aren't they out of use? If they are, how can they be life-expired  ? |
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Post by Tubeboy on May 17, 2008 18:24:31 GMT
They were 20 years old when Charing X Jubilee closed.
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Post by superteacher on May 17, 2008 18:35:30 GMT
They were 20 years old when Charing X Jubilee closed. 20 years old isn't old for an escalator, but I suspect that it's their lack of use since 1999 that has done the damage. Have they been switched on since 1999? |
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Post by Colin on May 17, 2008 22:09:27 GMT
THAT [the escalators] would be the only thing that would hinder an emergency detrainment there. I find that an interesting statement - surely escalators are switched off during evacuations, etc (except perhaps one going down for the emergency services)? I'm sure that's how things were done when I was on the stations  |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2008 0:48:51 GMT
They were 20 years old when Charing X Jubilee closed. 20 years old isn't old for an escalator, but I suspect that it's their lack of use since 1999 that has done the damage. Have they been switched on since 1999? Yes. They are switched on whenever there are people doing things in the platforms; I have seen them running when looking through the windows in the doors at the end of the Northern Line concourse landing from the Northern Line ticket hall. |
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Post by railtechnician on May 18, 2008 7:44:20 GMT
THAT [the escalators] would be the only thing that would hinder an emergency detrainment there. I find that an interesting statement - surely escalators are switched off during evacuations, etc (except perhaps one going down for the emergency services)? I'm sure that's how things were done when I was on the stations An excellent point! Perhaps some readers are unaware that many emergency detraining points are fixed stairways such as Netherton road, Swiss Cottage, Bow, Heathrow etc. |
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Post by mrfs42 on May 18, 2008 7:58:52 GMT
Indeed - and on the new bit of the Picc you've got to make sure you go up the correct staircase! (when you've got 2 doors to choose from with the Escape and Intervention shafts)
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Post by cetacean on May 18, 2008 8:08:09 GMT
surely escalators are switched off during evacuations If this a universal rule? One of the explanations of the current Bank works says that they can only allow trains to stop at the station if at least one up escalator is working, for evacuation capacity. |
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Post by Tubeboy on May 18, 2008 9:16:13 GMT
THAT [the escalators] would be the only thing that would hinder an emergency detrainment there. I find that an interesting statement - surely escalators are switched off during evacuations, etc (except perhaps one going down for the emergency services)? I'm sure that's how things were done when I was on the stations Switch escalators off during an evac? How would you get people out of the station COLIN? It is regulations that dictate closing a station if there is not one working up escalator. I have been in that situation, the people who can walk up a faulty one can, those who cant are evacuated by train. |
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Post by ianvisits on May 18, 2008 10:18:51 GMT
I would have thought that regulations requiring the station to close if there isn't an up escalator working would be fine for "normal operations", but that separate rules apply during an emergency.
I know LUL can be a bureaucratic nightmare at times (often actually), but I can't imagine they would refuse to evacuate a station in an emergency if the escalators were out of action.
I would feel sorry for the station attendant standing on the platform as a fire rips through a train and then says, "sorry mate, regulations wont let you use this station".
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Post by Colin on May 18, 2008 11:57:12 GMT
Switch escalators off during an evac? How would you get people out of the station COLIN? It is regulations that dictate closing a station if there is not one working up escalator. I have been in that situation, the people who can walk up a faulty one can, those who cant are evacuated by train. Ok then let's look at this from a slightly different angle - switching an escalator off is a form of station control. By using them as a fixed stairway, you can slow the flow of people down making things like platform over crowding much easier to control. So to say: It is regulations that dictate closing a station if there is not one working up escalator. Again has me baffled. What regulations? are you confusing yourself with a lift station? (I'm not trying to patronise you here or anything BTW!) You then said: I have been in that situation, the people who can walk up a faulty one can, those who cant are evacuated by train. Isn't that contradicting your point and answering the question? |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2008 17:06:10 GMT
Every station has a congestion and control plan.
This plan would give the details of how a station could operate during equipment faults.
As a general rule, if a station can't provide an UP escalator service the station would close. The time taken to walk up an escalator would in many cases take too long to evacuate a platform. There were some obvious exceptions Chancery Lane for example.
However in LU's constant plight for world class service, safety plans are being relaxed and some stations are now expected to remain open with no escalators. (Tooting Broadways long escalator springs to mind as a strange one)
It was mentioned previously that about switching off escalators for station control purposes. It is a fairly crude measure and personally not something I would do - except in an extreme situation (It takes for every to bloody start the thing up again!)
Turning an escalator off during an evacuation is very bad practice and could be quite dangerous. Not only delaying those going up the escalator but you then can't prevent people from using a stopped escalator in BOTH directions. Normal practice would be to turn all escalators to the UP position and keep one escalator in the down direction to every level. To reverse a down escalator as long as it was empty would take about a minute, so there is no benefit of using it as a fixed stair.
As for CX, can't see why the station couldn't be used for emergency evacuations, assuming adequate lighting was in place.
There are other considerations, location etc. But obviously the SS or operating official in charge makes the decisions, based on the congestion and control plan.
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Post by mrfs42 on May 18, 2008 21:09:33 GMT
As for CX, can't see why the station couldn't be used for emergency evacuations, assuming adequate lighting was in place. Would one in three working fluo tubes be classed as giving sufficient lumens/nits for emergency evacuation? |
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Post by Colin on May 18, 2008 23:58:44 GMT
Interesting post there SS Stig - ISTR we did things differently at Earls Court when I was there........but then like you say, every location has it's way of doing things; what works for one location may not work elsewhere.
I still find it interesting that an up escalator available only as a fixed stairway can close a station....
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2008 8:18:00 GMT
There is no fixed policy on closing a station with no up escalator. One is often mentioned by staff, but I can't see one in the rule book or emergency plans.
Some locations mention evacuation using escalators for mobility impared customers, Earl's Court is one. So there could be an assumption that with no up escalator you can't evacuate mobility impared customers so the station should close.
Tubeboy also quite rightly mentioned also the affect on elderly, less fit on walking up a reasonable set of escalators.
In reality having no UP escalator service would be a major contributor to congestion and as such many stations would find it difficult to remain open without a decent escalator service.
Interestingly (sic) no stations emergency plans - that I read - stated switching off an escalator is a congestion/ control measure.
1 in 3 lights would be adequate for emergency evac purposes. But would result in a platform closure during normal operations (on a sub-surface station or at night)
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Post by d7666 on May 19, 2008 22:26:04 GMT
According to everything I understand about Charing Cross, it must never be used for Jubilee detraining except in direst of situations. It is almost analagous to an emergency intervention shaft - only to be used when there really is no alternative. Think first of the Jubilee CHC platforms not as a station at all - then think about evacuations.
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