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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2007 16:49:37 GMT
I was wondering as the new tube map says special fares apply on stations north of Hatch End. It also shows the stations not in any current zone (IE 1-6 or A-D). Why haven't they applied zone A fares? Will this continue when the Bakerloo goes up to Watford Junction? Also does this mean any journey's north of there won't count to a Travelcard with Oyster or the paper version?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2007 3:20:30 GMT
TfL is probably still in the process of working out fare levels on the DC lines to Watford Junction - it makes sense to retain the status quo until everything is hammered out.
Ticketing on the DC lines is a bit strange, anyway...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2007 11:50:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2007 18:22:51 GMT
If you follow the link to the absolutely massive pdf that I can't possibly post here, you can see the new tube map with Overground added. And what a mess! Take a look at Willesden Junction:
 The line coming in bottom left is the North London line from Gunnersbury, the one immediately to the right being the line from Clapham Junction. What exactly is supposed to happen at Willesden Junction? They seem to cross over before the line from Clapham gives up. Anyone know if this reflects the reality on the ground? On the map it looks terrible. And they've made a right mess of the Wimbledon branch of the District, with the station names all bunched up north of the river - why not just push the river down to make space?  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2007 18:52:46 GMT
Werid thing is the older maps they didnt had a junction where the Clapham & Richmond branched off making it look alot neater. Seems TfL have decided to make the map alot less user friendly this time around with all the text on it. Stations around Shepard's Bush being an example of this. well this is a temp map any way with a new one due just in time for xmas when the ELL closes. I think theres alot of work to be done on the map to bring it back to simple terms.
On the plus side I like what they did with the Jubilee around North Greenwich-Canning town section tho I dont know why they didnt do something else with Waterloo as its still a mess.
and Ive finally reached 100 posts!
Wait a minute, does this mean we get a new map for Nov due to Overground, new map in Dec for ELL closure, new one in Jan for new zones and finally new one in March for T5? So many changes to the map in such a small period of time then!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2007 19:21:09 GMT
Wait a minute, does this mean we get a new map for Nov due to Overground, new map in Dec for ELL closure, new one in Jan for new zones and finally new one in March for T5? So many changes to the map in such a small period of time then! Plenty of chances to improve on this effort then! Here's the whole thing in a reasonably manageable size:  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2007 19:33:30 GMT
Hmmm should me make a wish/fix it list of the faults?
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Oracle
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RIP 2012
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Post by Oracle on Nov 1, 2007 19:50:08 GMT
Isn't the map correct for [former] Silverlink trains on the North London Line as they run through Willesden Junction High Level, and the Clapham Junction trains as they terminate at HL, and join up at Mitre Bridge Junction? The Southern Clapham J - Watford J trains generally go Sudbury J - Willesden West London J (via Willesden Relief Lines diveunder). The Silverlink services to Stratford generally use Willesden HL except the trains that use Willesden Suburban J - Kensal Green J, which I always thought was the "City Loop" but it's not!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 0:18:15 GMT
Isn't the map correct for [former] Silverlink trains on the North London Line as they run through Willesden Junction High Level, and the Clapham Junction trains as they terminate at HL, and join up at Mitre Bridge Junction? The Southern Clapham J - Watford J trains generally go Sudbury J - Willesden West London J (via Willesden Relief Lines diveunder). The Silverlink services to Stratford generally use Willesden HL except the trains that use Willesden Suburban J - Kensal Green J, which I always thought was the "City Loop" but it's not! Just looking at the Quail maps, the West London Line (WLL) meets the North London Line (NLL) at Wilesden H.L. Jn. The Mitre Bridge Jn links to the Willesden relief lines. Maybe the map mess is to do with re-inforcing the idea in customers minds that the WLL is not connected in a train service with NLL. I think some work needs to be done here to tidy the map up. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 2:03:24 GMT
Despite the minor issues surrounding the inclusion of the Overground I think the new map works quite nicely - the biggest whoopsie is the location of Clapham Junction.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 9:57:07 GMT
Despite the minor issues surrounding the inclusion of the Overground I think the new map works quite nicely - the biggest whoopsie is the location of Clapham Junction. Whys that? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 12:44:32 GMT
The map makes Clapham Junction look like it's east of Wimbledon Park, when it's actually east of Putney Bridge.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 13:39:11 GMT
Buts it there as the Overground on the Tube map was designed with section 2 in mind. Clapham Junction been placed there so when/if it gets extended over the south London line it meets up in the space.
Just noticed on the map that the GOBLIN always goes under the Tube lines on the map but the NLL is correct expect around Earl's Court (where it goes over Piccadilly but under the District!)
**Also just noticed that the older maps of the Overground on the Tube map had edited zone A to include the DC lines. Prehaps a idea of where they're going with pricing perhaps?**
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Post by amershamsi on Nov 2, 2007 16:02:20 GMT
I'm finding this Clapham Junction being the biggest whoopsy thing odd, especially as there are more obvious whoopsies - like having a curve on the NLL at Stratford - it's surely easy enough to lower the NLL to the west of here (on the map) so that the line just ends with a horizontal (it does on the current London Connections map). Likewise making Willesden Junction look like a total mess.
For geographic horrors - look at the northern end of the Victoria line, and the GOBLin - is Harringay Green Lanes north of Seven Sisters? Worse is South Tottenham north of Tottenham Hale!
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Post by railtechnician on Nov 2, 2007 16:20:04 GMT
I'm finding this Clapham Junction being the biggest whoopsy thing odd, especially as there are more obvious whoopsies - like having a curve on the NLL at Stratford - it's surely easy enough to lower the NLL to the west of here (on the map) so that the line just ends with a horizontal (it does on the current London Connections map). Likewise making Willesden Junction look like a total mess. For geographic horrors - look at the northern end of the Victoria line, and the GOBLin - is Harringay Green Lanes north of Seven Sisters? Worse is South Tottenham north of Tottenham Hale! Artistic license I expect but whilst I might not grumble about the position of Harringay which is shown on the wrong side of the Picc line the position of South Tottenham is completely wrong on the wrong side of the Vic line especially as it is just a stone's throw from Seven Sisters and the point at which the lines cross! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 16:46:19 GMT
I'm finding this Clapham Junction being the biggest whoopsy thing odd, especially as there are more obvious whoopsies - like having a curve on the NLL at Stratford - it's surely easy enough to lower the NLL to the west of here (on the map) so that the line just ends with a horizontal (it does on the current London Connections map). Likewise making Willesden Junction look like a total mess. For geographic horrors - look at the northern end of the Victoria line, and the GOBLin - is Harringay Green Lanes north of Seven Sisters? Worse is South Tottenham north of Tottenham Hale! The NLL Stratford to Highbury has been drawn that way for a good reason. Its to do with how the ELR (East London Railway) connects to the NLL on the map post 2010. To see this map Ive included on my flickr page, heres the link of the Overground c. 2010 flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/1828335353/ |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 16:58:05 GMT
Sorry to bang on about this, but the more I look at this map the more I find wrong with it!
The red plane symbol meaning"Interchange with National Rail services to Airport" crops up all over the place. But which airport from which station? How is this supposed to help?
And King's Cross St Pancras "for St Pancras International". Well where else would you go if you wanted St Pancras? We never had Waterloo "for Waterloo International" !
This pointless clutter makes the whole thing harder to read IMHO.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 17:05:24 GMT
The NLL Stratford to Highbury has been drawn that way for a good reason. Its to do with how the ELR (East London Railway) connects to the NLL on the map post 2010. To see this map Ive included on my flickr page, heres the link of the Overground c. 2010 flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/1828335353/Thanks for the link. I'm pleased to see a nice straight line from Haggerston to New Cross, but bizarrely it gets rather messy in the south eastern part where there are no existing lines to work around! Surely New Cross Gate to West Croydon could be a straight line. And I can't see why more than one change of direction is needed between Surrey Quays and Denmark Hill. Whoever designs these maps seems to have lost sight of the principle of avoiding unnecessary changes of direction. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 17:09:40 GMT
Sorry to bang on about this, but the more I look at this map the more I find wrong with it! The red plane symbol meaning"Interchange with National Rail services to Airport" crops up all over the place. But which airport from which station? How is this supposed to help? And King's Cross St Pancras "for St Pancras International". Well where else would you go if you wanted St Pancras? We never had Waterloo "for Waterloo International" ! This pointless clutter makes the whole thing harder to read IMHO. The red airport signs mean for Heathrow you can go via Ealing Broadway, Watford Junction, Clapham Junction etc etc. Is this TfL's way of lightening the load of the Piccadilly? I hadn't noticed the St. Pancras International but thats taking it too far. Whats next? Stratford Domestic being spilt in two? Personally this is a better verison, yes I know its mine (with a few mistakes but I think its simple!) flickr.com/photos/mackenzieblu/1316358648/in/set-72157602812904672/ |
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Post by amershamsi on Nov 2, 2007 19:27:42 GMT
The red airport signs mean for Heathrow you can go via Ealing Broadway, Watford Junction, Clapham Junction etc etc. Is this TfL's way of lightening the load of the Piccadilly? not really. It's any London Airport (except City) via a line not on the map (ie NR). The Watford rail-air bus probably doesn't count in there, though it's hard to say!. So you have (on the map that'll reappear this month, after a brief outing this past week): Watford Junction, Wembley Central, Kenny O, West Brompton, Victoria and Clapham Junction to Gatwick Ealing Broadway and Paddington to Heathrow Kentish Town, KXSt Pancras, Farringdon, Blackfriars and London Bridge to Gatwick and Luton Stratford, Tottenham Hale and Liverpool Street to Stansted of course, no reference is made as to which airport is served, this I got from knowing where various services go. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 19:53:31 GMT
Sorry I missed part of my reply, it was meant to be an example where I picked out a few of the possible links. As Liverpool Street, Tottenham Hale & Stratford all mean Stanstead, Londong Bridge etc for Gatwick. Confusing for customers really as it doesnt say much.
Just to point out a falut here, Watford Junction's a red airplane meaning its connects with NR RAIL services. Is there an Airport rail link to Watford Jn? I know theres a coach from there to Heathrow. If its the case Brimingham airport is the intended services, shouldnt Euston have a red plane?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 20:04:04 GMT
Just to point out a falut here, Watford Junction's a red airplane meaning its connects with NR RAIL services. Is there an Airport rail link to Watford Jn? I know theres a coach from there to Heathrow. If its the case Brimingham airport is the intended services, shouldnt Euston have a red plane? There are Southern services from Watford Junction to Brighton that call at Gatwick. I believe that is what the plane symbol is indicating. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2007 20:37:16 GMT
I forgot about them. I was thinking of the London Connection map. Be interesting to see if TPTB pay any attension with future maps.
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