|
|
Post by ruislip on Apr 16, 2008 16:53:02 GMT
Were there any plans discussed prior to 1994 regarding making the "Drain" part of London Transport? I know for years it appeared on tube maps and even had a timetable in the Underground Guide.
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Apr 16, 2008 19:52:17 GMT
Interesting query! I go back to the Sixties I suppose but only associated with LU from around 1974. I have always believed that there were calls to transfer BR's only tube line (as Moorgate was not BR-owned at the time) to the London Transport Executive. The LTE and British Railways/Brtish Rail were of course Government-owned under the auspices originally from 1948 of the British Transport Commission. This changed slightly after 1962 with the Transport Act introduced under the Conservative Government. As from 1 January 1970 the LTE was transferred from Government control to that of the Greater London Council, and at that point there was no common link between British Rail and London Transport. I suppose nothing could really be done with the W&C until the EE/Lansing-built 1940 cars had been sent to the great Drain in the sky. Ultimately it proved easy enough to transfer assets between BR and LT under the GLC: viz a viz the Northern City, District from Putney Bridge to Wimbledon Park, Stonebridge Park depot, etc.
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282 
|
Post by Ben on Apr 16, 2008 20:02:41 GMT
There was a plan during the 30's or 40's to link the drain to the ELL I think. Its a footnote in 'London's Lost Tube Schemes'. Could this have entailed a transfer of ownership?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2008 20:54:56 GMT
Reading onto it, there were all sorts of plans to connect it up to many different railways over time, but various things prevented it from happening, gradients, curvature etc.
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Apr 16, 2008 21:42:40 GMT
Up until 1948 the Drain was owned by the Southern Railway. The SR already had granted running powers to the London Transport Board over the Wombledon branch and of course the Richmond one. The LTB was of course a stautory concoction by then and Governmentpowned before the BTC took it ounder their wing. The ELL however was owned by the Met and then the LTB and running powers had been granted to the LBSCR I suppose it would have been and thus the SR. The SR was also a creature of statute under Grouping as of 1923 but privately-owned and independent more-or-less until wartime regulations came in.
If the ELL had connected with the Drain then there would have been I suggest a running power agreement, and payments would have been made through the Railway Clearing House.
It is interesting to think what rights the railway companies had to run trains over the post-1933 LT lines: LMS for coal trains on the District, GWR goods to Smithfields on the Met, SR on the ELL, LNER on the Met, LNER on the Northern, LNER on the Central, LNER and LMS over the City Widened Lines, to name a few that I can think of, and of course we had LT running on the LMS (District east of Bow and Watford Junction DC lines), SR (Richmond, Wimbledon and perhaps portions near New X and New X Gate stations?), again off the top of my head. An agreement would have been readily achievable IF and it's a big if, the costs and sharing arrangements were able to be settled. The SR I know was not cash-rich for a start!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2008 9:56:56 GMT
The ELL however was owned by the Met and then the LTB and running powers had been granted to the LBSCR I suppose it would have been and thus the SR. The ELL was never owned by the Met. It was originally a independent company (at least on paper) which acquired the Thames Tunnel in 1865, and never ran a train of its own. Passenger service between Wapping and New Cross (LBSCR) was started by the LBSCR in 1869. From 1882, the ELR was run by a joint committee of Met, District, GER, SER, LCDR, and LBSCR. Met and District electric trains started running in 1913. The ELR was transferred to the Southern in 1925, but was still managed by a joint committee. Freight services were mostly run by LNER. After 1933, all passenger services were provided by LT. On nationalisation, the line was transferred to LT, but BR (ER) continued to run freight until 1962. For more details, see Middleton Press' East London Line. |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on May 8, 2008 0:58:52 GMT
Weren't parts of the Met joint lines too until 1948. And wasn't part of the Olympia branch nominally BR-owned until 1994?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 9, 2008 21:23:48 GMT
I am fairly sure that the district line from Bow through to at least Barking was originally owned by the London Tilbury & Southend railway.
|
|
