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Post by q8 on Apr 30, 2005 17:23:17 GMT
 While having a butchers at my old timetables today and seeing that the later ones are A4 sized it occurred to me that they could be laid out in a different format. Instead of the columns being oriented DOWN the page they couild be turned so that they read ACROSS the page rather like looking at the monitor screen you are watching at the moment. This is wider than deeper so if you were to turn the print in the WTT in the same fashion you could have the top page west to east and the bottom page vice versa. That might also assist in drivers/signalmen being able to lay the thing down to read it when working to timetable during disruption. Especially if they use a bulldog clip to keep it open at the required page. Similarly with set workings. If they were laid out with the given point in a list with the arrival time to the left of the name and the departure on the right of it it would be easier to read. Both ideas might also save on print. (I know another of my potty ideas) 
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Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,096 
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Post by Tom on Apr 30, 2005 20:45:50 GMT
Instead of the columns being oriented DOWN the page they couild be turned so that they read ACROSS the page rather like looking at the monitor screen you are watching at the moment. This is wider than deeper so if you were to turn the print in the WTT in the same fashion you could have the top page west to east and the bottom page vice versa. (I know another of my potty ideas) Not so potty as you might think, it's the method used by parts of the Stockholm system. To the best of my knowledge (though I stand to be corrected), all three lines have their timing points laid out across the page, but on the green line you hold each page 'landscape' and on the red line 'portrait' to read it. Here is a bit of the current Green line timetable:  (Click the image for the full size version [94k]) |
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Post by q8 on May 1, 2005 1:07:19 GMT
 Thanks Mr Tom that is the word I was trying to think of "landscape" I just measured the dimensions of the layout in the A4 sized timetables and they get 20x8mm columns in the width of the page in 187mm (portrait format). Now if the thing was printed in landscape I work it out that they could get 32/33 columns in a print area of 259mm in a slightly larger print vertically. It would also avoid the "double window" style oif layout. To my mind that will save on pages in the whole thing. Am I right? (my maths ain't all that)  I think it would look something like the present thing with the list of Stations in the left hand (wide) column and the train numbers/times etc, across the rest of the page with maybe enough room to put notes at the bottom if they stuck to the present printsize,
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Post by q8 on May 1, 2005 9:21:36 GMT
Alternately if the present "portrait" format with two "windows" must be used they could adapt it to make the top window westbound and the lower one eastbound with matching columns. I mean by that if say, train 23, left Upminster at 10:09 and gets to Richmond at 11:31 in the top window then it's return trip from Richmond could be in the column immediately below it's westbound one. That way a trains complete round trips could be shown on one page. They used to do that on the bakerloo with the old style small format timetables.
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Post by citysig on May 1, 2005 10:06:34 GMT
The old Jubilee (before the extension) and the current ELL TTs used to be laid out lovely. Just as you suggest Q8, the trips used to "run down the page" with, say 301 running Stanmore to Charing Cross and then immediately below and in line in the northbound window, you could easily see the whole "rounder." Only when you got to the next batch of rounders did you have to change pages. Although if I remember correctly, each page had 2 sets of northbound/southbound windows, making page turning even less frequent. The whole book was only about 15-20 pages long!
It was in the mid 1990s that timetables started to look slightly different. It was at the height of boosting information. Extra stations were added, rather than the principal timing points. So where the Jub just had Stanmore, Wembley, Neasden, Willesden, Finchley Road, Baker Street and Charing Cross, stations such as Dollis Hill, Queensbury and the like were added. This naturally took up a fair bit of room.
The next change saw the timetable become even more "idiot proof." Instead of a timetable note stating "Shunts via 23rd to platform" under a trip, they expanded the whole thing and gave an actual timetabled trip just for the shunt move. This adds another column which is basically useless and ignored by more seasoned signallers. In fact, I think there have been more instances of drivers "overlooking" booked shunt moves or trying to carry them out incorrectly since the simple notes were changed. Much easier to be "told" you shunt, rather than missing a small, italic printed trip.
Another problem that could be lessened by Q8s method is that whereby, on longer lines, a trip takes so long in each direction that quite often you are working off of 2 different pages. The Jub only has to have a bit of late-running (most days then) and you find yourself looking at the Northbound on page 4 against the Southbound on page 7. It's slightly better than it used to be. The first full JLE timetable had pages which started out of line. In other words, Northbound page has trains from 0700. The adjacent Southbound page is already on 0900! Constant page flipping.
If they go landscape, remove those unnecessary stations (as everyone can work out the rough time a train is due there) and take away the pointless shunt trips, then things would be much better.
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Post by q8 on May 1, 2005 11:02:37 GMT
If they go landscape, remove those unnecessary stations (as everyone can work out the rough time a train is due there) and take away the pointless shunt trips, then things would be much better.
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Another thing they could do is remove the "hour" from the actual list of times in a column and only show it when the hour changes like so :-
15:05
-- 19
-- 32 (The two dashes are blank space)
-- 48
16:09
-- 11
and so on. That used to be the format in the old 12 hour WTT's and again saved on printing costs.
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Post by citysig on May 1, 2005 18:15:29 GMT
Removing some of the "idiot proofing" would help, but removing the hour may be a step too far. Even some of us signalmen may be thrown for a minute or two when checking things - especially in a job like ours at Baker Street where the timetable is only checked in the event of problems. Have a quiet day and you can easily find yourself a page behind.
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While having a butchers at my old timetables today and seeing that the later ones are A4 sized it occurred to me that they could be laid out in a different format.
