Northern Line Extensions 1939-1941

From the Northern line lover, many thanks Harsig.

If you are thinking of selling, pm me Oracle!

I was first button pusher! ;D

This was the first time the 'Floodlit Disc Distant Signal' and the white Marker Light (shown with an 'X' symbol)were introduced to LT style signalling.

The Floodlit Disc Distant Signal allowed Loose Coupled Unbraked Freight trains to proceed at normal speed through the Colour Light System which was based on shorter EMU braking distances. One Distant, when at Clear, indicated that Freight trains could proceed at normal speed through a group of Colour Light signals to the next Disc. For example (on the Southbound at West Finchley) :

Finchley Central Outer Distant - "Clear to NP 1 Distant",
NP 1 Distant - "Clear to beyond NP 1 "
and so on through East Finchley and Park Junction

The White Marker Lights indicated that that the train stop at the CL signal was lowered to facilitate local shunting even though the signal had been placed at Stop by the opening of the Ground Frame.

Mill Hill East to Edgware.

Though a lot of the formation for the Northbound track was ready ( Mill Hill NB platform was in place) and some of the new track may have been laid, the original line remained in use as the Single Running Line.
It did not,anyway, form part of the extension of Electrification to Mill Hill East.

Me again. Sorry to ressurect a thread....but....

I'm just looking through my copy of "northern wastes", when I spotted a picture at the top of page 23 looking down MHE's platform towards Edgware (dated July 1958 if it helps). Immediately after the platform there's a curved facing pair of points (i.e. 'X' shaped, but bending towards the left), the furthest fork being described as a run off siding on the left and the line to Edgware on the right. The near set are the platform line on the right and the other on the left appears to be the unelectrified second track?

This doesn't appear to match the diagram at all, as that shows the goods sidings branching after the platform. Am I correct in assuming this is because the diagram's layout is dated to 1940?

Hi
I have been recently going through the LU resignalling notices in the SRS archives at Droitwich. There is a notice/diagram that relates to the picture on page 23 of 'Northern Wastes'. This is LPTB Traffic Circular (Railways) No 19 1941 (actually is a joint LNER/LPTB notice) dating from May 16-18th. It is concerned with the 'Electrification of tracks and extension of LPTB (Northern Line) from Finchley Central to Mill Hill East (LNER).'

The connection referred to in the caption as a run-off siding is shown as worked by a 2 lever ground frame adjacent to the connection. These points were spring operated in the trailing position but both the point and FPL were worked by GF lever No 1 in the facing position. Also visible in the photo are the connections to the Gas Works Sidings which were unlocked by the train staff. The aarangements in the photograph correspond to the diagrams posted by Harsig and the Traffic Circular No 19 (1941). The only difference between the diagrams and photograph is that the run-off siding is just portrayed as a trap point rather than a complete sidings.

Also on the diagrams but not visible in the photos are 'stop boards' does anybody know what these would have looked like please? The diagrams show them to be a diamond shape. Additionally the text mentions (but not shewn on the diagram) a yellow warning board with black edge being provided 440yds in advance of the stop board from Edgware. Again any ideas as to what these boards were like?

The arrangements detailed above were superceded in July 1943 with the issue of LPTB Traffic Circular No 28 of 1943 Again a joint LNER/LPTB notice) with the 'Provision of New Reception Road in Goods Yard Mill Hill East (LNER).' This basically involved the provision of a new ground frame (named South GF) with the exisiting frames being renamed North and Middle GFs respectively. They also appear to have been allocated the code 'NV' .The connection to protect the single line to Edgeware remained as before and continued to be worked by the renamed North GF. The attached diagram does not show any further north than the run-off siding so I assume that the arrangements were unchanged.

The next notice I have copied regarding Mill Hill East is Traffic Circular No 37 of 1967 (dated 15th October) which is basically the provision of a temporary box at Finchley Central. The attached diagram shows the line terminating at Mill Hill East with a fixed red light at the Edgware end of the platform and no further track northwards. The goods yard at MHE has also been removed although there is no reference to it in the attached notes so I can only assume that it had already been removed prior to the issue of this notice.

The signals at Mill East are NQX801 (southbound starting to Finchley) and NQX802 (nothbound starting to Edgware). I assume that they are worked from Finchley Central box (because of prefix 'NQ') but why are they prefixed with an X and have an 800 series number unlike the others worked by Finchley Central? The 1943 notice details changes to these signals. NQX801 is renumbered NQ37 and described as 'worked by lever no 37 in Finchley Central signal box.' NQX802 is renumbered as NV802.

Does anybody have anymore details as to the removal of the single line to Edgware - were the gas works sidings at MHE removed at the same time?- and the closure of the goods yard at MHE with consequent signalling alterations. I also assume that LNER/BR worked the goods trains - again presumably using kettles with trip cocks - would any of the ER trip cock-fitted diesels have appeared on the line at all? The gas works I presume would have received coal in and possibly despatched some gas out? What sort of traffic did the goods yard receive? (Edit - further reading of 'Northern Wastes' states that the last of the BR goods yards - at Edgware - "closed in 1964, thus Diesel traction was to be seen for a few years over the Northern Heights, the long defunct D8200 types being most common." I suppose that answers my own question!!)

Turning to Edgware does anybody have a diagram showing the Mill Hill line? I have copied Traffic Circular No 4 of 1965 which basically deals with the closure of Edgware box on 31st January 1965 and the commencement of automatic signalling controlled by programme machines in new IMR south of Edgware station. These were supervised by Golders Green regulating room. The attached diagram does not show any connections towards Mill Hill unless it was made via the depot of which only the entrance signalling /trackwork is shewn. The text makes no mention of the closure or removal of the Mill Hill line so again assume it happen before the issue of this notice? (Edit - see above previous paragraph so assume an earlier notice would have dealt with this.)

Now to my final question. The Finchley/ MHE diagrams show the disc distant signals - obviously for the goods traffic - how were these actually controlled? I am assuming that the ones at Finchley Central (at least) were automatically worked as there are no numbers alongside them on the diagrams. As I don't have a rule book/signalling regulations for LU I am unsure as to whether there was actually any need for them to be controlled directly. Where there any instances when the distant had to be maintained at caution (as on BR)?

Incidentally to return to 'Northern Wastes' there is a reproduction on page 37 showing part of a proposed plan of Mill Hill East station following doubling to Edgware which is 'courtesy of London Underground'. What sort of archive material is available in the LU Museum and/or Acton Depot Museum and is there any sort of access permitted to it?

Again I am sorry for asking so many questions as usual but my excuse is that I have learnt so much about LU signalling from the many knowledgable people on here.

i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/Harsig/STop.jpg is of a stop board at Rickmansworth, which I presume would have been similar to those at Mill Hill East.


Being in the 800 series they would have been automatic signals, that is not worked from a manned signalbox. However because they were on a single line they were given an X suffix to indicate that they could not be passed at Danger solely on the Motorman's authority as was and indeed still is the case at most automatic signals on LUL. Details of the operation of these signals was given in Traffic Circular 19/1941. NQX801 would clear if the control levers of both ground frames were reverse and the driver had operated the plunger located at the signal. NQX802 worked in the same way except that the plunger was replaced by a lock operated by a key attached to the train staff for the single line section to Edgware.



These distant signals would clear automatically provided that all the stop signals they applied to were clear. Likewise they would return to caution if any of the associated stop signals was returned to danger by the signalman or if a train occupied a track circuit between the distant signal and the first stop signal. Signalmen were reminded that

Disc Distants.

See my reply # 8. The Distants worked entirely automatically - though the replacement of an appropriate lever by a Signalman would return the Distant to Caution from the Clear position.

No he wouldn't be hence the instruction I quoted earlier about not attempting to set a conflicting route across the front of a train once the distant signal had been lowered.