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Post by dunois on Dec 19, 2006 21:29:27 GMT
Hi all Some of you may remember me, as I posted on this forum some months ago but due to other priorities I was not able to visit it regularly the last few months. Today I went from Bath to London and as you might imagine a small visit of the tube was scheduled to take place, this time that was the Picc between Central London to Cockfosters and back. At this aerial terminus I decided to take some photos of trains coming and leaving, everything went fine for the first train, a second train then came I was at the end on the platform (but still behind the yellow line and the barriers of course) and so I photographed it. When the shot was done the train stopped short of the platform for approx 2 min before moving again and stopping properly. Apparently either by train radio or in the station itself the station managed was called and a few min later just after accompagning the driver back to the other end the guy talked to me, he asked if I was taking photograpgs of which I said yes the answer I recieved was "this could be potentially dangerous", I mentionned to him that I was not using either flash photograph or a tripod and that I was behind the yellow line; I don't recall his answer exactly but it was along the lines of "drivers must respect a procedure, you are in their eyeline here" he also mentionned "diamonds" figures somewhere on the platform or on the tracks and after a "ok I will remember this for the next time" I went back on the train and the discussion ended. The driver was relieved later at Southgate and he apparently mentionned that my photograph caused a problem (I only understood the gesture of a photo being taken I did not heard anything of the discussion). So after this description that's my question: If I did something wrong, what was wrong? and does any driver here have any idea of what happened with the train? The shot in quetsion:  Thanks in advance for any answer. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2006 21:50:46 GMT
Sounds like theres a satirical Jobsworth up there...
The 'diamonds' that were referred to will probably be those to do with the platform end monitors.
That face looks familiar too...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2006 23:31:45 GMT
That face looks familiar too... I was going to say the same thing, but since I started using the Picc 10 times a week (at least), half the drivers seem to look like that!  ;D I can't see anything wrong. Your not far enough down the platform to distract the driver as he pulls in, it should be nothing to do with the stopping mark, as thats at the other end...  I think our resident Picc drivers are probably best people to answer this one thoug!  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2006 23:59:16 GMT
Oh, they're a sensitive lot on the Picc!  |
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Post by dunois on Dec 20, 2006 1:00:45 GMT
I was indeed quite impressed because I also took photos in Morden in April at almost the same place relative to the platforms ends without any problems.
Ok I should probably have asked some kind of permission from the station office but as I only intended to stay for 10/20 mins I decided not to do so.
Nevertheless if any Picc driver can give some extra info that would be great!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2006 7:17:31 GMT
I don't feel you need to ask permission to take personal photographs at a station. As long as you follow the sensible rules, which it appeared you did.
The only thing I'd add, from a station perspective, is that while you weren't doing anything wrong, the vast majority of passengers will follow the same pattern. It's a bit 'off putting' to see someone stand in a place that isn't 'normal'. Only a couple of days ago, we had a guy standing at the tail wall, well behind the yellow line, but he let a couple of trains go. It didn't look right, so a couple of staff went down to see if he was OK. It turns out he was simply waiting for a friend in a particular train. OK no biggie, but had me thinking for a few mins....
As for the driver, we do have jobsworths (as every job has), maybe the driver was looking for christmas/ new year off (report a near miss!), or perhaps teh driver had just returned to duty from having a one-under and was just nervous.
I feel that photography on the Underground will always be 'one of those topics' where anyone who takes photos regularily will have a story to tell of jobsworth staff or BTP officers. A majority of staff don't see their workpalce as a cause for photographic catalogue so may view those that do as a potential threat.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2006 22:22:44 GMT
Your camera doesn't happen to have an orange/red AF assist lamp does it?
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Post by Tubeboy on Dec 20, 2006 22:31:21 GMT
I think Dunois, he was a jobsworth. Speaking as a member of LU operational staff, you seem to have done nothing wrong.
Concur that he looks familiar. maybe he is related to a fellow saddo who drove T10 to Hainault a couple of weeks ago.
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Post by auxsetreq on Dec 20, 2006 22:56:59 GMT
Please give more info about the T10 saddo at Hainault. I'm curious and intrigued. What happened?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2006 23:16:48 GMT
After the DD Meet, some of us went for a night out on the tubes... One or two, perhaps three were caught up with a rather beligerant Op who shouted at these gathered souls...As to what was said, I don't know, but am told it is the way in which it was said that created the upset...
Understood that the particular Op might be nervous after a previous, but from the look of the pic, you were standing quite well back from the edge and not right at the end of the platform...
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Post by dunois on Dec 21, 2006 0:20:08 GMT
Thanks to everybody for the answers.
By taking photographs we are indeed seen as strange and though my policy is always to abide to the safety rules that does not prevent us from meeting a staff member who either does not know about the LU policy regarding photographs or who is just simply in a bad mood.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2006 2:19:56 GMT
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Post by Tomcakes on Dec 21, 2006 8:53:36 GMT
I've had similar experiences at Cockfosters before - telling me photography isn't allowed because "of 9/11 and all that, you know". Having been lectured by the SS, I let him wobble off to his office and put his kettle on and then carried on taking a few more before leaving.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2006 16:44:26 GMT
Surely nowadays it would be wise to take a copy of the LUL Conditions of Carriage (I believe it's in there) around with you as most NR photographers do nowadays due to jobsworth BTP... I'm sorry, but it happens...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2006 20:45:38 GMT
Your picture suggests to me that you were entirely within the rules. The Diamonds are for station staff to align mirror views and have no relevance to your picture taking.
However, since this keeps cropping up I suggest anyone taking pictures on stations print off the following note and keep it with you ....
The rule book permission to take your private pictures is as follows : -
Working Reference Manual, Section Sa109, Rule 10.1
which reads as follows : -
10. Photography on stations
10.1 Passengers can take photographs with small cameras for private purposes, provided
• flashlights and/or tripods are not used
• no obstruction or inconvenience is caused to staff and/or passengers.
10.2 Representatives of the media, press or photographic agencies and film companies, and other persons
taking photographs for commercial purposes must first get permission from the Press Officer. See
section 13 of this document.[/color]
Tell, politely, any member of staff, you have checked and been told your actions are allowed by Section Sa109, Rule 10.1 of The Working Reference Manual, and invite them to go and check the rules or with someone more senior.
There are many rules so don't be surprised if not all members of staff are aware of this one. But I certainly expect once quoted (politely) by you (anyone), they will look it up and be satisfied. If not, get their details and make a complaint about them (quoting the rule again and making clear you quoted it to them).
NB. Please, everyone, for your safety, remain in station areas intended for the public and do not stand track side of the yellow platform edge lines. It is the staff managers judgment as to what causes inconvenience or obstruction, but such an interpretation must be reasonable.
The driver encountered by dunois just seems to have been up for causing trouble no doubt to get some time off driving.
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Post by compsci on Dec 21, 2006 22:07:51 GMT
The "small" bit worries me somewhat. It seems rather arbitrary. I doubt that by DSLR and bazooka lens would count as small, but I don't see what difference it would realistically make.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2006 22:29:43 GMT
Oooh, I love the idea of quoting quotes from the WRM!!!
Not that I know much of it anyway!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2006 22:36:53 GMT
sounds like the driver just wanted xmas and new year off by claiming a near miss i thought only edgware road drivers done that ;D ;D ;D
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Post by dunois on Dec 22, 2006 0:06:23 GMT
Following the comments about the red lamp, my camera indeed do have one but it is only used when the self timing mode is on which was not the case here.
If the SS of Cockfosters (an old man for me) has troubles with photographs then I won't do any photographs here anymore (and as this part of the network is now done I do not intent to go back here soon) and then everybody is happy.
Back to the diamonds I am still quite dubitative about what they are really, does any one have a picture of them?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2006 0:40:09 GMT
They're just simply yellow diamonds painted along the yellow 'Stand back' line.
As Aspect said, they're just for aligning mirror views.
Not a hinderance to the T/Op, you being there at all.
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Post by Chris M on Dec 22, 2006 2:18:09 GMT
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Post by Chris W on Dec 22, 2006 13:00:16 GMT
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Post by Phil on Dec 22, 2006 13:47:09 GMT
Yes, and the red light thing can be a pain as we found out in anothe thread referred to above. You don't always know....
Colin's and my nice SE k800i phones are far superior camera-wise to the old k750i....BUT to improve the autofocus the 800 has a red/infra-red light which comes on automatically in low light and can't be overrriden.
NOW - the book says nothing about it, so the first I knew was when I saw it reflected back at me. Fortunately I wasn't on a LU platform at the time.....So you can upset the t/ops without even being aware of it.
I just wonder what Colin's mates say as he takes all these great pics at Tower Hill etc., and those coming towards him are confronted by a red light from his cab..... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Colin on Dec 22, 2006 14:04:27 GMT
I'm quite secretive at work ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2006 19:00:30 GMT
You can get the red light to turn off on the K800i by setting the focus to infinite [press 4 a couple of times]. But then you run the risk of being out of focus.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2006 21:17:16 GMT
Concur that he looks familiar. maybe he is related to a fellow saddo who drove T10 to Hainault a couple of weeks ago. Indeed, I remember that driver well  I work on a station too Dunois and reading your description of events, you have done nothing wrong. I'm sorry that episode happened - there was no need to make a mountain out of a molehill (or out of nothing at all) that day |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2006 10:29:23 GMT
The above FAQ should make it clear that it is only referring to commercial photography. "Anybody wanting to film or take pictures must seek prior permission from the London Underground Film Office." (my emphasis). A Jobsworth armed with that could cause all kinds of probs  . Also www.tfl.gov.uk/tube/arts/filming/ says, "Apart from the Circle line, all other lines thread their way through the City and go above ground into the countryside." I don't recall seeing much daylight and countryside on the Victoria line. |
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Post by chris on Dec 23, 2006 10:40:36 GMT
I don't recall seeing much daylight and countryside on the Victoria line. Depot's maybe? I know the trains "come up for air" so to speak! |
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Post by Chris M on Dec 23, 2006 10:54:16 GMT
The W&C trains only "come up for air" every decade or so!
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Post by Tomcakes on Dec 23, 2006 11:07:59 GMT
Re: the red light - is it impractical to cover it in a square of insulating tape or similar?
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;D
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