Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2006 23:55:20 GMT
Now, before I get a lot of stock explanations for this generic title, yes I know flash is banned, so is the use of tripods/monopods etc.
But today I had an interesting experince!
I was at Wapping NB, about 45 minutes ago, there were some tourists up the platform. I thought hey what the hell, I'll take a photo of the train approaching from brunel's tunnel. The flash on my phone was off so I assumed it was all okay. I take the photo, thinking "awesome, it looks good etc etc".
Imagine my shock when the front of the train pulls to a halt alongside me, the t/op pulls his window down and asks me "yes? were you taking a photo?"
I realise "oh rubbish" because even if the flash is off on my phone/camera it still displays a bright red ranging light, to get a focus point for the lens. The t/op explains he stopped because he assumed the red light from my camera was the red light from.. well.. something.. station staff or the south end of the platform or whatever, and was worried because of the whole [and correct] anti-SPAD conditioning. I explain my overly gratuitous apologies, as I realised my mistake (a bit too late mind) and the train pulls forward to the stopping mark. As the train pulled forward I was left trying to explain to some rather angry tourists that the train wasn't ignoring the station, it was supposed to stop 'over there'.
In conclusion, I was wondering what with a lot of cameras having this auto focus [like my phone/camera] red light, and the drivers getting confused, do you the prefessionals think it would be better to have a complete anti-photo ban on underground sections of LUL to avoid 'fake SPAD' or whether this would cause too many complaints from tourists?
It'd certainly make it easier for me not to have to explain to random tourists that the train wasn't ignoring them but I'd just confused the driver!
apologies for grammar/spelling problems, I've had some beers tonight.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2006 1:03:49 GMT
In this instance the T/Op was well within his rights to drop the handle and ascertain the source of the red light; I believe that when ANY red light is shown on the platform, on the track or at any time to a driver he is expected to stop AT ONCE and ascertain why he has been halted. I believe AlanL did precisely this a while ago when he came into a station on a last train and was confronted with a red lamp; he subsequently dropped the handle and refused to proceed until the SA showed him and the cameras a green lamp, which shows how seriously the T/Op took your own ranging light when he saw it.
However, I doubt a complete photography ban would be sensible. All that is needed is common sense and responsbility on the part of a photographer, to ensure that his equipment (be it a flash or a ranging light) does not disrupt the operation of the railway.
fx: stampede of T/Ops...
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 16, 2006 1:24:50 GMT
Hmmm..................a difficult one this. Any red light aimed at a driver will be treated as a danger signal. I came into Dagenham Heathway a couple of weeks ago on the last Upminster - the track workers were waiting for my train to pass through and had their track trolleys and such like on the platform....complete with flashing red lights  I 'dropped the lot' and had 'words' with them as I had to assume they might not be aware I still had to pass through. I think it's just 'one of those things' - hopefully this problem (red lights on cameras) won't occur too often in the future. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2006 11:59:34 GMT
I rather doubt the small red light on a phone aught to confuse for very long !! Next we'll be stopping at persons wearing red dresses !!!
We, as drivers, have a good idea of where we are likely to see a red light that applies to us. A red light on a platform may certainly require investigation, but I must say if I saw it was a member of the public with a phone / camera, it wouldn't cause me to stop unless they appeared to be trying to warn of some danger !
I personally find the whole flash photography ban over egged ...we get far brighter flashes in our faces from the arcing of passing trains. Tourists take flash pictures of trains all the time, Westminster especially, I just give a nice smile or wave. Never caused me any harm. I find it absurd that some drivers get on the pa and harp on about it, or on tube lines refuse to move with bicycles aboard yet are quiet happy to hand trains over to me with filthy ticketless vagrants aboard, or themselves have been smoking in cabs !! Talk about pick on soft targets !
(anyway ....given the driver did stop at your red signal ...which was not unreasonable, at least it seems he did not make a song and dance about it, so thats fair enough) (ohh, and if tourists were having a go at you, I'd have told em in less polite terms that you were unable to discuss matters of confidentiality with them ;D )
So my view, as a driver, is that all photography should be allowed including flash, there are far more important issues and rules that need enforcing that are ignored and that actually affect a journey!
Much more dodgy, yet I've never heard it mentioned by a single driver, is a security camera, with a bright red "infra red" circular lamp, that from a distance looks all the world like a signal, mounted in a Network Rail yard right next to the eastbound District running line shortly after leaving Barking e/b.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Nov 16, 2006 14:14:11 GMT
Much more dodgy, yet I've never heard it mentioned by a single driver, is a security camera, with a bright red "infra red" circular lamp, that from a distance looks all the world like a signal, mounted in a Network Rail yard right next to the eastbound District running line shortly after leaving Barking e/b. Funny you should mention that - I've almost started braking for that a few times now, then remembered it's not actually a signal  ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2006 17:31:30 GMT
I rather doubt the small red light on a phone aught to confuse for very long !! Next we'll be stopping at persons wearing red dresses !!! Maybe the driver was paying rather less attention that he should have been, then looked up to see a red light! I personally find the whole flash photography ban over egged ...we get far brighter flashes in our faces from the arcing of passing trains. Tourists take flash pictures of trains all the time, Westminster especially, I just give a nice smile or wave. Never caused me any harm. I find it absurd that some drivers get on the pa and harp on about it, or on tube lines refuse to move with bicycles aboard yet are quiet happy to hand trains over to me with filthy ticketless vagrants aboard, or themselves have been smoking in cabs !! Talk about pick on soft targets ! Well, I'm one those who does get on the PA and harp on about it! I've had camera flashes right in face approaching a platform and I do find it dazzling. In most cases, people aren't taking the photo right in the driver's face, but the rule is a general one and if we remind people at appropriate moments then we're going to avoid problems at other times. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Nov 17, 2006 9:04:35 GMT
Just be thankful you don't have photographers (with a lineside pass I must add...) who are stupid enough to wedge a tripod leg against the outer edge of one of the (running) rails. Happened to a mate of mine - and on the inside of a blind curve. Fortunately it was also 1/65 uphill (and our 25mph line limit of course), so a human tragedy was just about avoided (shame about the tripod and nice camera). We also have them regularly leaning as far off the edge of the platform as they can when we run in.
As an afterthought, one of the problems on 1st gen DMUs is that the brake handle and the horn are both on the right hand. In a near- (rather than absolute-) emergency it can lead to that odd second of indecision. Blow up first and get them out of the way, or brake first, leaving that tiny bit less time to alert them.
Sounds a no-brainer, but with vacuum brakes even an emergency application takes around 1 1/2 seconds to take effect. So if someone moves onto a foot crossing at a station it CAN be the right thing to blow first because you won't get stopped if they don't move anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2006 17:38:32 GMT
Not a T/op myself, but can imagine that the flash must be pretty intense on the eyes when coming out of a dark tunnel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2006 18:53:57 GMT
Not a T/op myself, but can imagine that the flash must be pretty intense on the eyes when coming out of a dark tunnel. It is pretty insignificant compared to the arcing of passing trains in the tunnels  Real bright low sunshine on a recently wet track however can be painful when you exit a tunnel section ! |
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solidbond
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Post by solidbond on Nov 18, 2006 22:37:07 GMT
Not a T/op myself, but can imagine that the flash must be pretty intense on the eyes when coming out of a dark tunnel. It is pretty insignificant compared to the arcing of passing trains in the tunnels Try having 27 flashes from 'proper' cameras, not pocket cameras, all going off at the same time, and you may change your opinion I had that some years ago when entering Victoria Westbound. In case you're wondering how I know EXACTLY how many flashes there were, after I stopped partway down the platform, blasted the whistle, then finally pulled into the platform, someone approached the cab and knocked on the door. I opened the door, and was asked if there was a problem. When I explained that I had just been blinded by a load of flashguns, he apologised and said that he was with - wait for it - LU Press and Public Relations, and was escorting 27 Japanese tourists around, and they didn't speak English  . I did wonder what the hell was the point of him being with them if they didn't speak English and he didn't speak Japanese |
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I 'dropped the lot' and had 'words' with them as I had to assume they might not be aware I still had to pass through.
