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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2006 20:58:08 GMT
I was at Stepney Green at around 2:15pm this afternoon (23rd) and the ticket office was closed and the ticket gate for oversized luggage was just left open. Aside from the cleaning man with the huge tweezers, no staff was to be seen.
Is there any regulations on staffing at stations, especially during daytime on a weekday?
I also fondly remember the same thing happening on a Saturday morning, this time with the ticket machine out of order as well! The only time I bought a ticket at the end of a tube journey. ;D
An added rant is, this station seems to be controlled by the RMT, as it was shut down twice in the previous 2 strikes.
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Post by c5 on Oct 23, 2006 23:43:34 GMT
The only places where station staff levels are "set in stone" are at stations known as "Section 12" typically underground/ sub-surface ones. These have their own minimum staffing levels, which must be adhered to by law. However, since the Shorter Working Week Project started last year (after being promised for years) LUL took the opportunity to implement phas one of the Ticket Office Closures...."in order to put more staff on platforms". This though also involved the displacement of a large number of staff and some station groups losing many staff (mainly outside Central London) but even some busy stations like King's Cross manage to open on weekends, and Camden Town was closed today for a while because of non-availablity of staff. Anyways!.... LUL "open-air" stations can be un-manned - though at present not rostered to be and (unpaid meal breaks excluded) there are often many stations un-manned for the odd shift or all day, or where it is "babysat" by a Station Assistant. Managers do move staff around to make sure that stations with points, interchanges and where other staff book on are staffed at least by a Supervisor. Ken Livingstone slated a National Rail company recently because they had un-staffed stations at night, yet LUL where he has control does the same.... hum  Real Station staff that belong to the tube (not a private "enforcement" firm is often what makes the tube World Class (aside a few indiviuals) and help keep stations well kept with floral displays instead of graffitti, helping keep unpleasent people away and helping customers who have been upset or abused (verbally/threating/flashing) by other customers. I have been around when people have been arrested for such offences and it make the tube that bit safer. Sorry for going on like an old record  But i think it is an important part of London |
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Post by Tubeboy on Oct 24, 2006 2:05:41 GMT
Agree with what Zedex says. Each station does indeed have a minimum staffing level [or minimum numbers as staff call it]. It varies widely. Obviously the larger/busier the station, the higher the number of staff that are on duty. On section 12 stations [defined as 50% of the permanent way being underground], I have worked at, it is a minimum of 2, which includes the supervisor. A supervisor must be on duty at all times.
On my old group [Ironically which is Camden!] most stations numbers were 2, except Camden, Old St and possibly Angel which were 3. It is rare for Camden to close, when staffing levels get down to 3 or lower, staff from neighbouring stations get sent to cover either for the rest of their shift, or for a limited time to cover till more of the "rostered staff on duty" turn up. This example is obviously repeated over the system.
As for not seeing staff, dont forget checks are carried out regularly on station equipment etc. It is possible [say there are 3 staff on a station, 2 sa's and a supervisor] SS is in his office, one sa is on their break, and the other leaves the barrier to go to the toilet. Yes it sometimes seems there are no staff, but in reality, most cases [definitely at a section 12 station] there are staff about, they just might not be in a public area.
As for the comment about the RMT, I am not sure what you are getting at. The RMT ADVISE staff to go on strike, but it is up to the individual staff concerned, whether they want to or not. Obviously the staff at Stepney Green felt the issues at stake at the time required them to go on strike. This wasnt down to the RMT "controlling" the station.
Forgot to say the staffing levels are for ALL times of the day, regardless of whether it is 11pm on a sunday night or 9am on a monday morning.
Re: shorter working week, Camden gained an sa [overall] while Finchley Central group lost 4 sa's.
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Post by Colin on Oct 24, 2006 9:35:18 GMT
I'm sure we've been here before on this subject, but a small check has failed to unearth the said thread  Whilst ZEDex and tubeboy are almost right, they have missed a small element of detail - section 12 no longer exists  Under section 12, the legal minimun staff required to keep any station open was 2. As has been said, every station had it's own 'local' (guideline) arrangements (Earls Court, for example, was 5) - but legally any station could open with two. Can you imagine the likes of Victoria, Oxford Circus, Kings Cross or the like, with only two staff?  AFAIK, LUL still abides by the old section 12 'guideline' staffing numbers - though in somewhat modified form (again using Earls Court as an example, they're now down to 4). Anyway, back to today - there is (or was) only one un-manned station on the LUL network (not counting NR managed stations), that being Roding Valley. All stations are rostered to have a Supervisor on them 24/7 - though if none are available (training, sickness, etc), an SA may be sent to 'Babysit' the station. In these circumstances, the SA is not allowed 'out & about' on the station as they are not qualified to 'work alone'. This only happens at 'open section' stations (ie, not those previously classed as section 12). Am I still going on.......sorry ;D To answer the original question, Stepney Green used to be a section 12 station - so it's extremely unlikely the station was un-staffed. What is more likely is that the supervisor was probably on the loo, taking a meal break, doing the ticket office banking, dealing with a customer in 'the office' or something similar. Just because the station staff were not immediately visable, dosen't mean the station is un-staffed. Incidently, it's often said that stations are un-staffed at night. So who lamps out the last trains, opens and closes the stations entrance's, books on & off the contractors, etc? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2006 13:11:07 GMT
An added rant is, this station seems to be controlled by the RMT, as it was shut down twice in the previous 2 strikes. The fact that Stepney Green was closed on a strike day does not necessarily mean that the station staff there were on strike. Management may have decided to move them to keep a "more important" station open during the strike. |
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Post by Colin on Oct 24, 2006 13:29:00 GMT
Indeed Tower Hill, Cannon Street & Whitechapel to name three, are in the same station group.
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 28, 2006 17:07:27 GMT
Will staff just wander around if they have nothing specific to do?
Say I was to turn up at a station with a closed ticket office and needed to use it - would the member of staff on duty, if qualified, allow me to buy a ticket?
Most NR stations, though, apart from the larger ones and those at major towns etc are unstaffed.
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Post by Colin on Oct 28, 2006 17:52:10 GMT
If the ticket office is not scheduled to be open, it won't be open. Sounds harsh, but that's the way it is now (especially based on what I posted IN THIS THREAD (reply #25). All station staff should be able to assist you in using a machine - that's about the most help you'll get. Station staff do not simply 'wander around' either - though it won't be obvious to you (as a punter), they will have specific jobs to do and specified areas to be in (even it's standing by the gateline looking bored). |
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Post by c5 on Oct 29, 2006 19:00:40 GMT
The north end Met line, Watford and Amersham branches station staff often walk around the station and personally tell customers if their train is cancelled or going to different platforms
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2006 19:48:33 GMT
The north end Met line, Watford and Amersham branches station staff often walk around the station and personally tell customers if their train is cancelled or going to different platforms I have heard that in that part of the world, such service is expected when one buys their season ticket ;D |
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 29, 2006 20:23:56 GMT
If the ticket office is not scheduled to be open, it won't be open. Sounds harsh, but that's the way it is now (especially based on what I posted IN THIS THREAD (reply #25). Helpful. Seems that customer service is obviously the first care! What would happen then if the passenger required a ticket which couldn't be sold by the MFM? Pay at the end of journey? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2006 21:05:50 GMT
wish that would happen at my end of the line we are luck to see anyone let alone anyone who is any use as my local station is richmond which is under south west traines and if you ask any of the staff their about the underground service mostof them just say look at screens very useful but what more can you expect from them
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Oct 29, 2006 21:11:08 GMT
In that instance, the 'ruling' is that you should purchase a single to your destination (or interchange station if leaving LUL for NR), then exchange the single for the ticket required at that destination station and pay the difference. If the ticket office at the station you are told to exchange the single at is closed, you lose out and have to suffer the cost of the single ticket. The reason for this is that a single is only valid for a short time (it was 2 1/ 2 hours last time I had anything to do with tickets, but this may have changed since then). World class service at it's best  ;D |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Oct 29, 2006 23:01:23 GMT
......and nothing to do with forcing people to go to Oyster....
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Real Station staff that belong to the tube (not a private "enforcement" firm is often what makes the tube World Class (aside a few indiviuals) and help keep stations well kept with floral displays instead of graffitti, helping keep unpleasent people away and helping customers who have been upset or abused (verbally/threating/flashing) by other customers. I have been around when people have been arrested for such offences and it make the tube that bit safer.
But i think it is an important part of London
