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Post by donnytom on Jun 4, 2006 12:24:55 GMT
Poor thing . Presumably they are stored inside the works? From what I've been able to see, the unrefurbs are definitely outside. I think I also saw a tube-shape in the shed nearest the passenger lines, although an 08 was trundling in the way a little!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2006 15:27:35 GMT
I'm wondering just how much it costs to hire that crane - that beast is HUGE. The transportation of the cars on lorries via Allelys Heavy Haul is around £1100 per car.
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Post by stanmorek on Jun 4, 2006 16:57:25 GMT
Looks like a 500 tonne crane lifting a 30 tonne car though you have to look at the lifting radius and reach below road level.
At a guess the hire cost is £10k a day not including cost of insurance, road closure, operator, banksmen, slingers, lifting plan etc If a lift of this type had to be done in a weekend then there'd probably be a second crane on standby in case of a problem with the first one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2006 17:20:44 GMT
The transportation of the cars on lorries via Allelys Heavy Haul is around £1100 per car. a "cheap" deal!
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Post by donnytom on Jun 14, 2006 17:44:59 GMT
Just to add- yesterday it was possible to see refurb and unrefurb from trains (and the nearby area, I'd guess) in the yard at Doncaster, if anybody fancies getting themselves a photo.
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Post by Tomcakes on Jun 14, 2006 17:48:49 GMT
Top of the carpark is the best place!
Edit: directions: from the railway station follow signs for the buses, then turn left once inside the glass building, up the escalator, carry on a bit, then take a lift/stairs to level 6.
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Post by Tubeboy on Jun 14, 2006 17:49:36 GMT
Item on the London news a minute ago about the w&c, showing a car in the lul colours. The metronet guy said he was confident the closure would not overrun, time will tell!
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Post by CSLR on Jun 14, 2006 17:58:40 GMT
Top of the carpark is the best place! Edit: directions: from the railway station follow signs for the buses, then turn left once inside the glass building, up the escalator, carry on a bit, then take a lift/stairs to level 6. And the nearest cake shop?
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Post by Tomcakes on Jun 14, 2006 18:01:27 GMT
Hmm. From the top of the carpark, take the other tower of lifts down, then in the mall go right, right at the corner, streight on, down the escalator and it will be on your right .
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Post by CSLR on Jun 14, 2006 18:04:38 GMT
From the top of the carpark, take the other tower of lifts down, then in the mall go right, right at the corner, streight on, down the escalator and it will be on your right . Just under 3 minutes to reply (I made it 165 seconds). That is pretty good.
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Post by Chris M on Jun 14, 2006 18:22:20 GMT
I reckon you'd be able to do The Knowledge no problem with skills like that. Is there an equivalent for taxi drivers in Donny?
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Post by donnytom on Jun 14, 2006 20:52:56 GMT
Hmm. From the top of the carpark, take the other tower of lifts down, then in the mall go right, right at the corner, streight on, down the escalator and it will be on your right . By the way, is there any reason why those escalators are now both up-only? Very confusing! With that lone one near WHSmith, why couldn't they make it a matching pair? Only used the new layout twice- just cannot work out whether it's Cooplands of Gregg's that you're directing us towards! (bows to the mighty Tomcakes) ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2006 12:51:45 GMT
Whether or not it is just a paint job, I got severely cut up by one of these trains, at Hyde park corner last Friday (late) evening! No contest really - Ford Ka versus 92ts!
Being over forty and driving (or maybe just incompetent) I didn't manage to get it together to take a photo with me phone - but they do make a smart (not to mention surprising) road vehicle nonetheless!
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Post by Tubeboy on Aug 9, 2006 18:02:11 GMT
They do look nice since the repaint into lu livery. Hope they are kept in pristine condition, unlike their sisters on the Central.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2006 11:24:26 GMT
It shouldn't be such a prob, mate, seeing that they're less of them, though, admittedly the depot is no big one.
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Post by yellowsignal on Aug 10, 2006 16:29:18 GMT
I'm wondering just how much it costs to hire that crane - that beast is HUGE. The transportation of the cars on lorries via Allelys Heavy Haul is around £1100 per car. Over here a 500t crane costs about £ 1500 per day. That includes 2 operators. It takes about 2-4 hours to set it up, depending on circumstances and loads. Of course in a lift like this you need more people and perhaps some special lifting gear. £ 1100 per car sounds reasonable. Don't confuse a lot of money with expensive, because it's not expensive in the big picture.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2006 17:00:46 GMT
I think the transport costs are very reasonable, I'd gather that LU being a 'regular client' has a special deal set up...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2006 17:20:49 GMT
Just a question about the lifts: How does the crane attatch to the car - I have visions of a big loop of metal with a massive hook in it... but I imagine that it is not the case.
I've seen the photos but could someone explain how it works...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2006 17:26:29 GMT
there are attachment points on the solebar of the trains. The crane hooks into these; they are effectively like a pocket; imagine your hand as the crane jib/hook sliding into the 'pocket' I'm sure some pics will appear somewhere soon...
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Post by Phil on Aug 10, 2006 22:11:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2006 21:03:59 GMT
wicked! cheers guys!
(sorry i'm someone who loves to understand how things work...)
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Post by stanmorek on Aug 12, 2006 17:27:48 GMT
I imagine the car will have designated lifting points much like jacking points on an automobile so that the car body doesn't sag under its own weight when lifted up. This would prevent permanent damage to the underbody.
Also the lifting beams used with the crane lift ensures the weight is even distributed to prevent the body from twisting and distorting when the car is suspended in the air.
The train experts here would know more about the evolution of car body designs. But the earlier car's structural strength much depended on the underbody/chassis whereas later designs have moncoque construction much like modern cars/aircraft. Anyone care to post a more detailed history on this? I'd be interested! ;D
I heard some time ago that there was a particular problem with cracking of welds in the D-stock underframe. But I've seen in depots stripped down trains with the welds marked up for inspection. (Hmm just seen a another thread on a similar topic)
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Post by yellowsignal on Aug 12, 2006 20:36:34 GMT
If you look at V3.1's pictures, the second one shows one of the crane attachment points or pockets as mentioned earlier. They seem to have made some custom lifting gear, there are two sets of "arms" wrapping around the car, much like two giant hands picking up a miniature car. The arms are attached to a beam, i have no idea what it's called in the english language. This beam makes sure there are only vertical forces on the car.
At both ends of the car you can see a reasonably thin bar with a wheel at the end. I think that fits into vertical guiderails in the liftshaft making sure the car is lowered stright and won't hit a wall.
Another small detail is the fastening of the bogies so that they don't move around.
I'd imagine this stuff is specially made for LU, either they keep it ath W&C depot or another depot or with the ERU.
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Post by Chris M on Aug 12, 2006 22:04:49 GMT
I would be suprised if designing and making the necessary equiptment so that they can be lifted by crane was not part of the contract to design and build the cars.
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Post by stanmorek on Aug 13, 2006 9:15:55 GMT
If you look at V3.1's pictures, the second one shows one of the crane attachment points or pockets as mentioned earlier. The arms are attached to a beam, i have no idea what it's called in the english language. This beam makes sure there are only vertical forces on the car. . They'd be the lifting beams. I was lucky to be invited to a visit at ERU depot in Acton and was shown some of the methods of getting a derailed train back on track. One method was to jack the train up and insert timber wedges underneath so the jack could be moved to another position. It can take quite a few wedges as they will sink into ash embankments under the weight of the train. They also have an old tube train (possibly a 1959/62TS) on some dummy ballasted track with side skirts under the solebar. They practice crawling underneath the train from one end to the other. Luckily I was never asked to do this!
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