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Post by astock5000 on Nov 25, 2008 20:31:04 GMT
Possibly that all trains now have had some stage of TBTC mods done,as far as the actual signalling goes,rumours are that it's all in a bit of a mess.The upgrade is at least 12months behind schedule. So, that will mean ATO will now happen in 2010? Will the Northern's upgrade be delayed because of this, as most of the work on the Northern wont start until the Jubilee is upgraded? |
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Post by towerman on Nov 25, 2008 22:45:13 GMT
The full upgrade is supposed to start in late 2010 but,if it's already a year behind,we're starting to get dangerously close to the Olympics.
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Post by towerman on Nov 26, 2008 20:55:32 GMT
048-079 out of TFOS and now on DCA.092-091 stopped for retro fitting in TFOS.
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Post by towerman on Nov 29, 2008 0:07:23 GMT
048-079 now off DCA.
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Post by towerman on Dec 2, 2008 18:59:06 GMT
032-031 now on DCA,096-095 now stopped for retro fitting,048-079 now signed off and in service.
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Post by towerman on Dec 3, 2008 20:15:07 GMT
092-091 now out of TFOS signed off and in service,124-123 now stopped for retro fitting in TFOS.
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Post by 21146 on Dec 3, 2008 23:59:31 GMT
Are they still paying mega-money for staff to work on Dec 25?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Dec 4, 2008 0:35:17 GMT
I believe Thales are offering £750 a shift upwards,depending on grade.LUL are offering double time + a day in leiu.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Dec 5, 2008 4:23:43 GMT
096-095 now signed of and in service,120-119 now stopped for retro fitting.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2008 14:36:44 GMT
I hope all the problems are fixed pretty quickly, ATO can't come soon enough for the Jubilee.
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Post by towerman on Dec 6, 2008 22:49:29 GMT
Don't hold your breath,it's well behind schedule and apparently over budget already.
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Post by mcmaddog on Dec 7, 2008 14:44:29 GMT
Don't hold your breath,it's well behind schedule and apparently over budget already. What a shame - I get fed up with the Jubilee line nudgers (the drivers that don't have confidence to stop from a decent speed where there are PEDs). There is a strong response to criticism of the signalling in the new RAIL issue from George ClarkEngineering Manager, Tube Lines. It makes no mention of any delays and neatly sidesteps argument on this by stating "... wrongly anticipates problems on the Jubilee line when it upgrade is complete" |
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Post by towerman on Dec 8, 2008 4:51:08 GMT
There's a growing sense(hope) that the JNP upgrades could turn Tubelines into another Metronet.
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Post by 21146 on Dec 8, 2008 12:22:44 GMT
The trouble with the 96TS is the "Accurate Stop" light which shows when the train is correctly berthed to allow doors to be opened. Whereas on A and D Stock the "CSDE Enable" light comes on as the train is still moving (slowly) into the zone in the last few seconds before halting, there is a delay on the 96TS version and it only illuminated AFTER the train has stopped. Therefore you can't be sure you're in exactly the right spot until the train is stationary. Better to stop short and nudge forward, as with a Runback Detector fitted the alternative is no longer an option! This also explains the longer dwell times with a few seconds lost at every station waiting for the doors to open, in complete contrast to crew (or even Vic Line ATO) days.
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Post by edwin on Dec 9, 2008 0:26:41 GMT
Will this delay be fixed when the new signalling system comes into operation?
And how is dwell time calculated? Is it the time between the train halting and departing or for the amount of time the doors are open for?
Thanks for any responses.
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Post by upfast on Dec 9, 2008 0:29:30 GMT
Will this delay be fixed when the new signalling system comes into operation? And how is dwell time calculated? Is it the time between the train halting and departing or for the amount of time the doors are open for? Thanks for any responses. Dwell time is wheel stop to wheel start. |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 9, 2008 0:40:03 GMT
Will this delay be fixed when the new signalling system comes into operation? And how is dwell time calculated? Is it the time between the train halting and departing or for the amount of time the doors are open for? Thanks for any responses. I doubt it because the Central Line still has the delay between train stopping and doors opening. Ditto on non-ATO lines where there is now a delay between the T/Op pushing the 'doors closed' button and said doors closing. When a Guard did that the effect was immediate, now the 'chimes' have to sound initially, giving everyone the chance to put their foot in the door first. |
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Post by tubeprune on Dec 9, 2008 9:27:45 GMT
Will this delay be fixed when the new signalling system comes into operation? And how is dwell time calculated? Is it the time between the train halting and departing or for the amount of time the doors are open for? Thanks for any responses. Dwell time is wheel stop to wheel start. Indeed it is. It includes the delay for equipment operation. If you break it down it looks like this: Wheel stop; T/O presses door open buttons; door open command to doors open start; doors fully open; Time to this point about 5 secs. scrum down; 30 secs T/O presses doors close button; doors close command to doors start to close; doors closed; round the train circuit completed and pilot light on; T/O presses train start buttons or operates TBC; train brakes release; traction command to motors; wheel start. Time for this part another 7 secs - total 42 secs. Too long! |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 9, 2008 12:07:44 GMT
There is a wonderfully evocative bit of b&w LT newsreel shot from the public footbridge overlooking West Hampstead which shows a SB Bakerloo Line arriving, the doors opening as the train comes to a halt and passengers getting off the still-moving 38TS. I imagine that footage would be "Exhibit A" in a DB if it happened today! There were also some ATOs on the Vic who were "quick on the doors" in the 1970s and once you became aware of this, you could position/time yourself to alight from a moving train. No wonder LT's sliding air doors used to be lettered "KEEP CLEAR OF THE DOORS - DO NOT ALIGHT FROM MOVING TRAIN"! (even though in theory you couldn't). Finally, that footbridge is fully caged-in now preventing filming and photography too, another reflection of today's risk-averse society, and even if it wasn't there'd probably be a PCSO on it saying that such activity was banned for "security" reasons!
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Post by Tomcakes on Dec 9, 2008 14:24:12 GMT
It's possible, though, isn't it? I've been on quite a few D78 stock trains which have had the doors opening as the train pulls to a halt, and on more than one occasion have got off whilst the train was still moving (although at a very slow speed, and only for a couple of seconds as it pulls to a halt).
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Post by 21146 on Dec 9, 2008 15:08:21 GMT
It's possible, though, isn't it? I've been on quite a few D78 stock trains which have had the doors opening as the train pulls to a halt, and on more than one occasion have got off whilst the train was still moving (although at a very slow speed, and only for a couple of seconds as it pulls to a halt). Yes because the D Stock has a different form of platform/train interface when it comes to Correct Side Door Enable than 96TS. Not so easy on an A Stock because two hands are still required for driving and braking. |
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Post by 21146 on Dec 9, 2008 15:12:44 GMT
I've always regarded such 'early alighting' as akin to leaving RTs, RMs and slam-door units and done at my own risk but they'd be hell to pay if anyone had turned their ankle over (or worse) getting off an air-door train which hadn't fully stopped. Mind you they don't seem to have these problems in Mumbai/Bombay!
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Dec 9, 2008 19:51:01 GMT
032-031 now off DCA.124-123 now out of TFOS signed off and in service,100-099 stopped for retro fitting in TFOS.
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Post by mcmaddog on Dec 10, 2008 13:47:29 GMT
Richard Parry, Director of Strategy and Service Development, re-iterated last night in his answer to question 61 that the "new signalling system, to be ready from the end of 2009, will mean more and faster trains and a more reliable service". ;D The url is here www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/corporate/media/questiontime/see-answers.aspx |
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Post by CSLR on Dec 10, 2008 14:29:08 GMT
Richard Parry, Director of Strategy and Service Development, re-iterated last night in his answer to question 61 that the "new signalling system, to be ready from the end of 2009, will mean more and faster trains and a more reliable service". ;D The words 'faster trains' and 'more reliable service' were suggested in 1900 when they closed King William Street station. |
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Post by CSLR on Dec 10, 2008 14:30:38 GMT
The words 'faster trains' and 'more reliable service' were suggested in 1900 when they closed King William Street station. Come to think of it, they probably did manage to deliver the promise on that occasion. |
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Post by CSLR on Dec 10, 2008 14:35:44 GMT
The words 'faster trains' and 'more reliable service' were suggested in 1900 when they closed King William Street station. Come to think of it, they probably did manage to deliver the promise on that occasion. Now I seem to be having a conversation with myself. Awesome! |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Dec 10, 2008 19:50:06 GMT
Let's just say we've heard whispers that the best the Jubilee can hope for by the Olympics is ATP not full ATO.
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Post by towerman on Dec 11, 2008 19:41:01 GMT
032-031 now signed off and in service.
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Post by towerman on Dec 12, 2008 19:45:45 GMT
070-069 now on DCA,034-033 & 056-055 now stopped for retro fitting.
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