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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2007 12:08:34 GMT
I know that part of the Charing Cross Loop is now the northbound platform at Embankment. But what happened to the rest of the loop? Is it still there? Is it used as a storage area(for example)?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 27, 2007 14:06:12 GMT
IIRC Clive's Undergroudn Line Guide says the part that was under the river was sealed off when it was abandoned and subsequently holed by a direct hit during the war.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2007 17:18:44 GMT
Thanks. So that part is no more. Any idea about the East side of the loop?
What is Clive's Underground Line Guide
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Post by District Dave on Jan 27, 2007 17:43:33 GMT
The relevant pages can be found at www.davros.org/rail/culg/Though generally accurate there are occasional errors, but usually small. He has been known to get into discussions with members of staff on various forums where he insists his position is correct and argues this despite being told by staff members that he is wrong.......
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2007 18:25:24 GMT
Thanks for the link. It will take me hours to go through that site ;D
I have the same with spotters. They know more than the staff!
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 27, 2007 21:01:24 GMT
The loop is still there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2007 0:33:25 GMT
And in Clive's site it says that it has been filled in with rubble!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2007 3:16:47 GMT
And in Clive's site it says that it has been filled in with rubble! Certainly the ends of the loop have been filled in and plugged, and there are no visible signs of it's existance.
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Post by mandgc on Jan 28, 2007 8:06:25 GMT
' Clive ' mentions the problems with the Reverse Loop at Embankment "turning trains round the wrong way" Yet the loop was again installed at Kennington and is still there and in use eighty years later! :-)
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 28, 2007 10:08:57 GMT
' Clive ' mentions the problems with the Reverse Loop at Embankment "turning trains round the wrong way" Yet the loop was again installed at Kennington and is still there and in use eighty years later! :-) When they had "car stock", they had a turntable at Golders Green so they could turn cars the right way round to make up trains. There was one at Wood Lane too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2007 10:21:30 GMT
To take a train from the Northern Line to Wood Lane just to go on the turntable must have been a nightmare to say the least. Did this happen regularly?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2007 10:44:34 GMT
To take a train from the Northern Line to Wood Lane just to go on the turntable must have been a nightmare to say the least. Did this happen regularly? The Northern Line trains were turned at Golders Green, not Wood Lane!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2007 12:16:57 GMT
Golders Green turned Northern cars, which could get reversed on Kennington loop. Wood Lane turned Central cars, which could get reversed on Hainault loop.
Centrals did not get reversed often: services terminated at Hainault. Northerns got reversed all the time at Kennington, so there were problems for all the time that the line had handed stock. Presumably Kennington had a loop because it made reversing faster, but at the expense of operating convenience.
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Post by ongarparknride on Jan 28, 2007 13:26:32 GMT
From memory, my Driver's Eye View Video 125 VHS tape of the Northern - which includes a trip round the Kennington Loop - explains its use saved time in reversing and crew changes in the narrative. I recollect this as a tad odd as it implies the process of "stepping back" crews, is presumably comparatively modern, like being introduced since the cost of building the loop which must have been significant at the time, was incurred.
Musing upon it, the loop might have been more useful in the days units were coupled up for rush-hour formations and were more critical for connecting A and D ends?
Intrigued as to any further comments about it.
cheers
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 28, 2007 13:26:49 GMT
I think the turntable at Wood Lane was for cars that got reversed via the loop there?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2007 21:38:53 GMT
What you have to bear in mind that the Kennington Loop opened in 1926, or there abouts, while the Charing X loop was an original construction, c.1909, the loop was closed then the CCE&HR extended the line south to Kennington, in 1926, and thence to Morden.
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Post by mandgc on Jan 29, 2007 0:54:53 GMT
Loops on Running Lines and Turntables in Depots.
The point I was making was that the use of a Loop on the running line was obviously an advantage or they wouldn't have continued to use them. Back in 1926 Northern trains were of Standard Stock (with A and D ends)- and also for the 1938 stock and it was a simple matter to send the whole train round the loop to turn it. The turntable at the depot would only take single cars and it is difficult to call to mind when it would need to be used. Other triangles used to turn whole trains were High Street/South Ken and the Croxley triangle. On Monday mornings some 'T' stock trains would run to Watford via Ricky. to put the train the right way round - the trains having become the wrong way round owing to the Baker St./Ricky/Watford/ Baker St. Sunday WTT having become disorganised. The Central still has the Hainault Loop.
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Post by abe on Jan 29, 2007 9:42:36 GMT
The Charing Cross loop opened in 1914. In 1925 the loop was closed so that the extension to Kennington could be built. Trains continued to run single-line from Strand to Charing Cross, switching at the crossover north of Strand. The loop immediately south of the platform at CX (where the NB line would join) was sealed off to allow the tunnelling; a section further round, where the new SB line severed the loop was sealed, the lining dismantled, and rubble inserted to support the tunnel. The tunnellers were then able to cut through in relative safety.
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 29, 2007 18:49:44 GMT
Turntables:
They were used largely to turn individual cars to make up a train in place of a car withdrawn for maintenance or damage. In pre-1936 built stock, individual cars were often uncoupled. On the Hampstead line, for example, Gate Stock was run as 4-car units on some trains in the peak with a motor car at each end. In the off-peak, one motor car was uncoupled to give a 3-car DM-T-CT formation. The spare motor cars used to be parked on the sidings north of Golders Green. All sorts of combinations were tried at one time or another.
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 29, 2007 18:51:46 GMT
Stepping back:
This has always been an option and was around right from the start of tube services. It was developed from the US practice of only changing crews at terminals.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2007 18:53:46 GMT
Rumour has it that, during WW2 the under river section of the Charing X loop was breached by a bomb.
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Post by cdr113 on Jan 29, 2007 19:20:57 GMT
Rumour has it that, during WW2 the under river section of the Charing X loop was breached by a bomb. is there an echo in here, or did you hear the rumour on the first page of this thread? ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2007 19:22:57 GMT
Well, if summat was stored there, it'd be a little bit soggy...
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Post by cdr113 on Jan 29, 2007 19:27:28 GMT
subsequently holed by a direct hit during the war. was referring to the above post...sorry, just having a silly moment ;D
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