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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 17:53:15 GMT
Well I don't like the idea of non transverse seating on 'big' trains... I guess it will alleviate overcrowding... but still... Don't go to Toyko then, it's full of very wide trains with transverse seating.
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 9, 2006 18:25:31 GMT
I have met some staff who work on the Met, who said if it wasnt for the fact that many LU managers live in Chesham, the branch would have closed, or at the least be a peak hour service only.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 18:33:03 GMT
presumably there must be a conflict of interest in LU then. I suppose they want to keep transverse seating and their comfy seats, yet some others within LU want maximum capacity trains.
They must be part of the bunch of well off Bucks commuters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 18:35:09 GMT
I have met some staff who work on the Met, who said if it wasnt for the fact that many LU managers live in Chesham, the branch would have closed, or at the least be a peak hour service only. You want to watch that - meeting staff who work on the Met Line They're a strange lot, with strange country accents and a like for tractors. I was on ATOR a couple of years back, with a SS from Chesham. He did indeed confirm your claim, plus the fact the annual season ticket is ££££'s. PLUS he knew a thing about a massey ferguson
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 9, 2006 18:43:32 GMT
He was a Fergie lover was he? Errr, we are talking about tractors folks!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 18:51:32 GMT
There was certainly no toe sucking in UK house that week - that I know about. Loads of armed police, but that is another story. www.masseyferguson.com/Railway closures are a huge political hot potato and unless a line/ station is being closed for an 'improvement' or a line/station is losing millions, you won't see many closures. I feel TFL would take over Chiltern services as far as Aylesbury, somtime in the future, but as Chiltern have a long franchise, I'll use my freedom pass on that service I feel....
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 9, 2006 19:01:02 GMT
Ooh arrrrr! Trrrractors! ;D
Toe sucking? Dont know if Mrs Tubeboy would be into that!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 19:01:58 GMT
The only thing wrong with the Met Main is the lack of money being spent on it. The track replacement works at Amersham are a good start, but what really ought to be done is a full-scale, NR-style comprehensive blockade between Watford North Junction and Mantles Wood Junction, with complete formation excavation, full track layout redesign and resignalling, and a design line speed of 75mph. This would include the construction of a burrowing junction for the Chesham branch to remove the pinch point at Chalfont as well. It sounds pie-in-the-sky, but if Chiltern can wrap their head around the current kerfluffle with stopping services in the London Borough of Harrow and come out on top, they may very well propose 'Evergreen 4' in conjunction with TfL and Metronet - after all, is it not reasonable to assume that the Metroland commuters will be just as ornery about a reduction in seats this time as they were last time?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 19:12:29 GMT
But have Chiltern come out top with the Harrow debate? The debate still rages on.
Alot of Tory voters in Metroland. Gotta keep them happy. (both Mr Brown & Mr Cameron)
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 9, 2006 19:13:02 GMT
Something that hasnt been touched upon, is that these trains being built for the route will have 100mph capability. Where on the NLL is there sections of 100mph running? Top speed of the line is 60mph I think.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 19:23:51 GMT
The Class 376 has a top speed of 75mph - or so it says in RAIL magazine
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Post by Tubeboy on Sept 9, 2006 19:32:39 GMT
These units will be based on the 376s, but not exact replicas.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 19:46:45 GMT
From RAIL 548
While RAIL aren't 100% accurate, they seem pretty sure that TFL have ordered 376's.
Bombardier themselves also claim they've sold 152 sets of class 376's.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 22:36:47 GMT
But have Chiltern come out top with the Harrow debate? The debate still rages on. Indeed. But given that when NSE tried an all-day comprehensive service, no one used it, I suspect that Chiltern feels that spending money on infrastructure improvements (such as four-tracking the station, as it once was) would be a waste. Alot of Tory voters in Metroland. Gotta keep them happy. (both Mr Brown & Mr Cameron) A lot of influential people in general...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 22:41:14 GMT
I am surpriesed the Met has not been diverted to St James's Park for all the LU managers!
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Post by amershamsi on Sept 9, 2006 22:57:04 GMT
The Silverlink services which will be franchised with input from TfL are local "inner-city" services all within London, whereas, say Southern's trains run out into Surrey CC. Silverlink Metro (as opposed to Silverlink County - which go to Northampton and are part of the same franchise) isn't entirely in London - Watford definitely isn't in Greater London. Southerns inner suburban routes partially go outside Greater London, but so do the Met and Central lines. I remember that TfL's London Rail plan had Aylesbury, Windsor, Welwyn Garden City, Hertford, Pitsea, Sevenoaks and other such places, with all inner surburban services under TfL influence, if not control.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 10, 2006 0:26:43 GMT
Put up a cantenery between Amersham and Aylesbury, then rebrand all services west of Moor Park as 'Overground' when chiltern's franchise runs out...
I hate to say it, but I can see a very slippery slope here. Whilst I hope its just a marketing gimmick to use both 'overground' and 'underground' as soon as the two start to overlap there will be a big problem.
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Post by amershamsi on Sept 10, 2006 12:12:36 GMT
Put up a cantenery between Amersham and Aylesbury third rail/4 rail would be easier, better looking and actually allowed by the HSE as a continuation of an existing system.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 10, 2006 14:58:57 GMT
Very true; I only say cantenery cos I thought it would be cheaper. That would be a good solution though; all the mets and chilterns running that way combined as an Overground service and run to the city. The trains though would of course have to have transverse seating...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2006 19:17:43 GMT
Put up a cantenery between Amersham and Aylesbury, then rebrand all services west of Moor Park as 'Overground' when chiltern's franchise runs out... I hate to say it, but I can see a very slippery slope here. Whilst I hope its just a marketing gimmick to use both 'overground' and 'underground' as soon as the two start to overlap there will be a big problem. Does Chiltern have capacity @ Marylebone to run Amersham's from there? Crossrail, if built, would free paths into Paddington, I could imagine the West Ruislip/ Denham Chiltern services running over the old GWR line, which could easily be re-doubled, with a new station at Park Royal the off to Paddington. This would free the paths into Marylebone for the Amersham/ Watford service?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2006 23:39:03 GMT
Does Chiltern have capacity @ Marylebone to run Amersham's from there? I guess it depends on how much of a service Amersham needs (or wants). [puts on Pete UXB's "I LIKE TIMETABLES" hat] According to the public timetables, between 0630 and 0830 there are 12 southbound departures from Amersham (5 Mets, 7 Chilterns), 1 southbound departure from Rickmansworth, and 2 southbound departures from Chesham, giving a total 15 trains in 2 hours, or 7.5tph. Likewise, in the northbound direction between 1600 and 1930 there are 18 northbound arrivals at Amersham (9 Mets, 9 Chilterns) and 2 northbound arrivals at Chesham, giving a total of 20 trains in 3.5 hours, or approx. 6tph. [takes off Pete UXB's "I LIKE TIMETABLES" hat] When Evergreen 2 is complete, Chiltern will be able to work 20tph in and out of Marylebone during the peaks. Given the current proportionally low number of Aylesbury services on the Met (which may change when TfL services lose additional seats) I suspect that Chiltern will be more than capable of running additional services to Aylesbury via the Met. Crossrail, if built, would free paths into Paddington, I could imagine the West Ruislip/ Denham Chiltern services running over the old GWR line, which could easily be re-doubled, with a new station at Park Royal the off to Paddington. This would free the paths into Marylebone for the Amersham/ Watford service? I doubt Crossrail will only run as far as West Ruislip - doing so would destroy the reason the Central Line's Ruislip branch was built. Besides, infrastructure constraints prevent such services from realistically operating - and addressing them would result in Sudbury Hill Harrow getting a better service as a side effect!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 11, 2006 15:59:58 GMT
It would be possible to divert trains via W Ruislip into Paddington instead of Marylebone (provided the track were redoubled), however the problem with that is what would happen with Wembley Hill, Sudbury Hill Harrow, Sudbury and Harrow Road, and Northolt Park.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2006 17:58:01 GMT
It would be possible to divert trains via W Ruislip into Paddington instead of Marylebone (provided the track were redoubled), however the problem with that is what would happen with Wembley Hill, Sudbury Hill Harrow, Sudbury and Harrow Road, and Northolt Park. Chiltern don't exactly operate a great service to those stations. An interchange at Park Royal would provide capacity on the Pic Line. They'd probably retain the statutory service (a bit like the opposite of Chilterns Paddington service as now). The GWR relief line is virtually already doubled and would only require a small investment to fill in the gaps.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2006 18:49:49 GMT
Chiltern don't exactly operate a great service to those stations. An interchange at Park Royal would provide capacity on the Pic Line. They'd probably retain the statutory service (a bit like the opposite of Chilterns Paddington service as now). Chiltern doesn't operate a great service because of constraining infrastructure and lack of concrete, latent passenger demand. If someone came up with the numbers and the money for four-tracking Sudbury Hill Harrow and Wembley Stadium, I suspect that the service will be improved. The GWR relief line is virtually already doubled and would only require a small investment to fill in the gaps. Not quite. When the New North Main Line was singled between Park Royal and Old Oak Common West Junction, the original double lead junction from the relief lines was changed to a single lead junction. As a result, not only would you need to comprehensively re-lay, re-signal and rebuild the Greenford triangle and the rest of the New North Main Line, but you'd also have to block the GWML to restore the missing connections.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2006 18:57:06 GMT
Surely the problems around Old Oak would be solved as the buildign work for Crossrail would mean massive changes to the area anyway?
I still can't get my head around Chilterns Sudbury/Harrow 'problem'. What is the TPH through there?
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Post by amershamsi on Sept 11, 2006 20:33:45 GMT
According to the public timetables, between 0630 and 0830 there are 12 southbound departures from Amersham (5 Mets, 7 Chilterns) Is this including all those Chiltern non-stoppers? also note that off peak it's 6tph to Amersham (4 Met, 2 Chiltern) at the moment, which is perhaps over provision.make it a branch of the Met/Chiltern line, going into Marylebone/Baker Street and up frequency to 4tph, ending at West Ruislipfrom wikipedia 4tph stoppers (2 Aylesbury, 1 Prince Risborough, 1 High Wycombe; though looking at a timetable there are some semi-fast ones (if you count Birmingham ones as fast)) and 3tph non-stoppers (1/2 Bicester North, 1/2 Stratford, 2 Birmingham) Sudbury Hill Harrow and Northolt Park have about 1tph. Sudbury Road has less - some service in the peaks, but that seems to be it. Wembley Stadium has 2tph.
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Post by yellowsignal on Sept 12, 2006 9:57:48 GMT
I may be wrong but I thought that they also used in in the Netherlands as well? Not as far as i know, never heard it over here
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