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Post by cetacean on Jan 19, 2008 17:24:36 GMT
I've noticed that when travelling at speed on the Victoria Line there's often this deafening grinding roar over and above the usual train noise. It's especially bad between Victoria and Green Park. Anyone know what this is, and whether it'll be fixed by the 2009 stock?
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Post by signalfailure on Jan 20, 2008 23:39:54 GMT
Sounds like flange squeal? Maybe where the automatic lubricators havent been applied yet?
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Post by c5 on Jan 20, 2008 23:50:26 GMT
Sounds like flange squeal? Maybe where the automatic lubricators havent been applied yet? I think it is that, but with something extra. I kow that the rail grinder has been down there and it is not as bad. I dont know if it is worse than normal but it resonates off the tunnel and is an awful noise, but different to normal rail squeel. |
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 21, 2008 7:43:31 GMT
It's "roaring rails" caused by small corrugations on the rail head. It is a well known problem which is often the subject of discussion as to the cause. It seems to be a combination of factors like train speed, how the power is applied, suspension, track condition etc. but my experience is that it seems to appear quite often on fast downhill sections. It does appear in other places too.
You can get rid of it by grinding.
Lots of learned papers have been written about rail corrugation but I don't think anyone has a cure yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2008 17:09:26 GMT
I've also wondered why the rails rattle when Vic and Central line trains approach some tube platforms.
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Post by stanmorek on Jan 23, 2008 17:16:59 GMT
LUL have tried to solve this problem by placing the foot of the rail on rubber pads to give the track some of the resilience that ballasted track has. It's said that because the Vic is mostly underground is a factor.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2008 17:23:06 GMT
LUL have tried to solve this problem by placing the foot of the rail on rubber pads to give the track some of the resilience that ballasted track has. It's said that because the Vic is mostly underground is a factor. OK, ta for that. I see it not as a problem though, as it was a sound I recall from childhood when travelling on the Vic, so many years ago |
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Post by Phil on Jan 29, 2008 13:59:44 GMT
You can get rid of it (the noise) by grinding. .......except in the cases where the noise is a whole lot worse after grinding (even though the ride is better). Again, nobody seems to know why this sometimes happens. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2008 16:45:08 GMT
the victoria line's tracks maybe a bit worn probably due to metrodebt
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Post by c5 on Jan 29, 2008 17:04:15 GMT
the victoria line's tracks maybe a bit worn probably due to metrodebt A lot more work on things like that have been done since PPP started than before! |
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Post by railtechnician on Jan 29, 2008 17:49:45 GMT
LUL have tried to solve this problem by placing the foot of the rail on rubber pads to give the track some of the resilience that ballasted track has. It's said that because the Vic is mostly underground is a factor. Of course rubber works on the H&C where it was used during the realignment for the Barbican development although the cushioning AIUI is in the fabric of the construction the whole trackbed resting on a layer of rubber. This or a similar technique was also employed when the Heathrow extension was built from Hounslow West with the rubber layer beneath the concrete. |
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Post by stanmorek on Jan 29, 2008 22:53:15 GMT
LUL have tried to solve this problem by placing the foot of the rail on rubber pads to give the track some of the resilience that ballasted track has. It's said that because the Vic is mostly underground is a factor. Of course rubber works on the H&C where it was used during the realignment for the Barbican development although the cushioning AIUI is in the fabric of the construction the whole trackbed resting on a layer of rubber. This or a similar technique was also employed when the Heathrow extension was built from Hounslow West with the rubber layer beneath the concrete. I once went into the undercroft like structure under the H&C tracks it's almost like a tunnel under a tunnel. It also carries the adjacent Thameslink tracks. The tracks are supported on a concrete slab deck held up by a series of beams on rubberised bearings. One of the rubber bearings had failed resulting in a local area of the deck sinking. It was a bit dodgy down there since the whole length of the thing was seperated by concrete ribs forming cells every 5 metres or so. We had to climb over a metre high wall in order to get into the next cell. If there was a fire down there or if one of our party had broken his leg it wouldn't be a good place to be. |
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Post by railtechnician on Jan 29, 2008 23:38:37 GMT
Of course rubber works on the H&C where it was used during the realignment for the Barbican development although the cushioning AIUI is in the fabric of the construction the whole trackbed resting on a layer of rubber. This or a similar technique was also employed when the Heathrow extension was built from Hounslow West with the rubber layer beneath the concrete. I once went into the undercroft like structure under the H&C tracks it's almost like a tunnel under a tunnel. It also carries the adjacent Thameslink tracks. The tracks are supported on a concrete slab deck held up by a series of beams on rubberised bearings. One of the rubber bearings had failed resulting in a local area of the deck sinking. It was a bit dodgy down there since the whole length of the thing was seperated by concrete ribs forming cells every 5 metres or so. We had to climb over a metre high wall in order to get into the next cell. If there was a fire down there or if one of our party had broken his leg it wouldn't be a good place to be. Oh I've been in plenty of places as tight and tighter than that all over the combine but the nearest I've been to that particular place is in the tunnels themselves though not for many years now. I was last there circa 1995 doing the CrossRail enabling works surveys. |
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Post by plampin on Mar 22, 2008 18:59:42 GMT
I've noticed that when travelling at speed on the Victoria Line there's often this deafening grinding roar over and above the usual train noise. It's especially bad between Victoria and Green Park. Anyone know what this is, and whether it'll be fixed by the 2009 stock? that is true but i think it is more noticible between finsbury park and seven sisters |
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Post by plampin on Mar 22, 2008 19:01:11 GMT
I've also wondered why the rails rattle when Vic and Central line trains approach some tube platforms. I think that may because of the speed at which trains approch the platforms in ATO mode, when driven in manual i am sure that they dont cause that to happen |
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 22, 2008 19:07:29 GMT
I've also wondered why the rails rattle when Vic and Central line trains approach some tube platforms. I think that may because of the speed at which trains approch the platforms in ATO mode, when driven in manual i am sure that they dont cause that to happen Because the approach spees are slightly lower in Manual and not as consistent - so the wheels don't approach the resonant frequency of the ATO corrugations? (I think) |
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Post by edwin on Mar 23, 2008 1:43:59 GMT
Is the noise in this video the sound you mean?
And the sound before a train enters the station... Is this the one? I've noticed you can hear the tracks echoing more these days, is it to do with continuous welded rail? I was waiting for a northbound Victorian line train at Oxford Circus the other day and I could hear practically the entire journey from Green Park! Anyway heres the video, I made a comment on it a few months ago asking about that very noise...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2008 2:12:38 GMT
The noise I was on about is the rattling rails not the howling sound which I believe is due to the air pressure.
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Post by tubeprune on Mar 23, 2008 9:27:38 GMT
The noise I was on about is the rattling rails not the howling sound which I believe is due to the air pressure. The howling noise is due to fine corrugation on the rail head which is very difficult to eradicate completely. It is quite common on parts of the Vic Line due to the higher train speeds. I think we have discussed this before? The rattling noise is the vibration caused by the shoes on the current rails. It is common all over the system. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2008 10:48:11 GMT
no jim is right there is a certain rattle on the victoria and central as a train berths into a station, also may I ask why the 1996 stock has a vibration noise when in a platform
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Post by edwin on Mar 23, 2008 15:14:33 GMT
The noise I was on about is the rattling rails not the howling sound which I believe is due to the air pressure. The sound at the start of this video? It isn't unique to ATO controlled lines... Does anyone know what the sound is from the second video in my first post? |
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Post by 100andthirty on Mar 23, 2008 16:16:46 GMT
The noise in the second video in your first post is - if I've followed the instructions correctly - what is known as roaring rails and is derived from corrugation - explained eslewhere in this thread
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Post by mileendfan on Mar 23, 2008 17:43:35 GMT
A good place to hear the rattling sound (which I find quite evocotive) is at Mile End when a westbound central line train is approaching. I remember it very clearly from the late '70's when I used to be on that platform a lot. Best wishes Hugh  |
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