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Post by astock5000 on Apr 1, 2008 9:55:55 GMT
The DLR may also have pretty high overcrowding figures. When I've been on the DLR, the trains are busy but most stations seem empty. |
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 1, 2008 10:28:44 GMT
I think a big part of the issues at termini are about the crossovers. At most line ends (including Stratford and Brixton), either going in or coming out of the station involves the train going over the crossover and blocking the route for any other services (a conflicting move). Brixton suffers most because there is nowhere else to reverse trains short at the south end without tipping out. Morden has greater flexibility as it's 3 roads continue towards the depot where there is also a reversing neck. A non-conflicting pattern can be acheived by reversing some trains in the centre road, and others via the depot using the outer platforms. I'd imagine one of the best layouts for reversing a high tph at a terminus is a loop, which are more common elsewhere, but LU has it's own examples at Heathrow and Kennington. The other way of attaining a higher central tph is to reverse trains at multiple destinations on the line rather than running them all to the end. The disadvantage of this on the the West end of the Jubilee (and elsewhere) is that trains trains have to be tipped out before going into reversing sidings beyond the station. However where a central reversing bay (Seven Sisters and White City for example) is provided this ceases to be a problem and the limiting factor is the time take to set the routes. You could have more staff for 'tipping out' at stations where it happens often. The multiple destinations idea is good because there is no point in, for example, running all eastbound Districts to Upminster, and you might need more trains in the middle of a line. |
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Post by edwin on Apr 1, 2008 20:31:30 GMT
The Jubilee's busiest section according to data available on the internet is Finchley Rd to Baker Street. This is from a few years back, but post extension. I used the line daily until late 2006, and the 7th car made no obvious difference in overcrowding. Yes, 30tph is a pretty lame figure post ATO, especially when the line was originally planned to run 36tph. Dead end termini, and tipping out at intermediate reversing points may even make 30tph difficult to operate! Isn't it planned to be 33tph? It seems dwell times are more of a problem, the doors were open for nearly a minute today at Oxford Cirus EB, and it was in the afternoon rush hour. The doors should be open for something more like 20 seconds! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 20:43:58 GMT
When I've been on the DLR, the trains are busy but most stations seem empty. That's probably because most passengers travel between Bank and Canary Wharf. Isn't it planned to be 33tph? It seems dwell times are more of a problem, the doors were open for nearly a minute today at Oxford Cirus EB, and it was in the afternoon rush hour. The doors should be open for something more like 20 seconds! It was 33tph. Now figures seem to be suggesting 30-31tph. The permitted dwell times for busy central stations are 35secs during the peaks. |
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Apr 1, 2008 21:01:37 GMT
The Seltrac system in theory can cope easily with 36tph but the powers that be want to introduce the system with a bit of slack in it.If it works well then the service may be ramped up to 33tph or even 36tph.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2008 22:11:02 GMT
I can't help wondering how these statistics are gathered! I can see how they can know how many people enter and leave stations, but many journeys involve a choice of route.
As my memory serves Roding valley, is so close to Buckhurst Hill, particularly if the western platform entrance is open (although I don't know if it is still used as I haven't been there since the mid 80's), making it a far better choice.
I find one of the worst hotspots is Stockwell, going South in the evening (c)rush hour. It seems that far more people change from Victoria to to Northern than vice versa. All the arriving trains are packed, with all the southbound passengers from both branches, possibly plus those going south on the Bakerloo too. A real funnel effect. It all makes me wonder if Tfl monitors, or even cares about these hotspots as, for short periods at least, they can feel quite dangerous not to mention frustrating!
Whilst I always revel in the convenience that cross-platform interchange (a la Victoria line) offers, I also wonder whether it contributes to this effect of platforms suddenly being flooded with huge volumes of passengers.
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 2, 2008 9:02:25 GMT
That's probably because most passengers travel between Bank and Canary Wharf. All services are usually busy, except trains doing Beckton-Canning Town. Bank, Stratford, Tower Gateway, Canning Town and stations in the Canary Wharf area are busy, but others aren't (Poplar can be, but probably this is people changing trains). |
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Post by DrOne on Apr 2, 2008 22:16:25 GMT
I think a big part of the issues at termini are about the crossovers. At most line ends (including Stratford and Brixton), either going in or coming out of the station involves the train going over the crossover and blocking the route for any other services (a conflicting move). Brixton suffers most because there is nowhere else to reverse trains short at the south end without tipping out. Morden has greater flexibility as it's 3 roads continue towards the depot where there is also a reversing neck. A non-conflicting pattern can be acheived by reversing some trains in the centre road, and others via the depot using the outer platforms. I'd imagine one of the best layouts for reversing a high tph at a terminus is a loop, which are more common elsewhere, but LU has it's own examples at Heathrow and Kennington. The other way of attaining a higher central tph is to reverse trains at multiple destinations on the line rather than running them all to the end. The disadvantage of this on the the West end of the Jubilee (and elsewhere) is that trains trains have to be tipped out before going into reversing sidings beyond the station. However where a central reversing bay (Seven Sisters and White City for example) is provided this ceases to be a problem and the limiting factor is the time take to set the routes. Thanks for the explanation suncloud, pretty clear. So there is a facility for short non-conflicting reversing at North Greenwich but there isn't any such facility at the other end of the Jubilee, which is the beginning of vast sections of 4-tracking for the met? Despite the fact that there will be 3-track termini at both ends, reversing sidings at Wembley Pk, Willesden Grn and W Hampsted and non-conflicting reversing at Nth Greenwich, the Jubilee will might end up with just 2 tph more than the Victoria line. |
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